Thursday, November 04, 2004

post party letdown

seems to me that the incentive to get the republican vote out was for the sole purpose of gay bashing and against unions of same sex couples. why should people go out in droves to deny other americans the right to health care, death benefits and the other comforts of home with a loved one.
in 4 years we can try to recoup whatever civil liberties are left to scrounge up. or perhaps during the next bushadministration (warmongering part 2) we can mobilize to get even more civil liberties solidified and provide courses and attend rallies to remind people NOT to give up their rights as citizens of this country and the world.

at present, i do not feel terribly welcome in the midwest states that voted for bush and against same sex unions. perhaps there is a way to reverse the affect by joining together on issues we can agree on; stopping the war, driving down oil prices (I for one would stop driving today if that would end the war!), improving education, funding cures for cancer, aids and just supporting the arts! it is overwhelming, but if we find commonalities throughout the country, maybe the madness will stop. til then, we have another four years. let's hope they're not all dark daze!

30 Comments:

At 11:52 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

How do you explain the turnout in the other forty or so states with no gay amendments on the ballot? Or how do you explain Oregon, which went for Bush but against gay marriage? I take it reality is a difficult concept, isn't it pothead?

Oh, and you're not welcome in midwestern states. Keep your socialist ass in California. You don't speak for us, nor do you speak for the majority of America. The most people ever turned up to vote Tuesday, and the silent majority bitch-slapped you punks. Either get a clue, or expect more and more "post party letdowns."

 
At 12:11 PM, Blogger Dawn Withers said...

Oregon didn't go to Bush. It went to Kerry. Accuracy is a hard concept, isn't it?

 
At 1:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey jackass - Oregon went to KERRY. At least that's what your beloved Fox News said...

 
At 3:17 PM, Blogger bm oran said...

These comments are all the same, I left this on another one too:
I love how this post is about unity and here everyone is bitching at eachother. Oh poor me, no one shares my views, give it a rest. So you (librals) think the war is wrong, while I (could care less what you call me) think that killing babies is wrong. Oh the hell is anyone to say whos right. I live in MN which voted Kerry and now for the next 4 years all I get to do is listen to bitching. That is worse then anything the Presidant will do, a bunch of whinny bastards that think their way is the best way. I don't know that I was right in voting Bush, hell I don't even like the guy that much, but he was better then Kerry in my opinion. I am entitled to that right, my own opinion? So maybe you should go and bitch at the parties and tell them to find people to run that we actually want in office, not some douche bag that is the 'I guess I'd rather have him' guy. I don't think this should be about the liberals uniting together or the conservatives uniting together, it should be about all of us uniting. You can't change things over night so why does everyone keep pushing for the extreames? Lets me in the middle some where and go from there.

 
At 5:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

People are liberal and gay because they did not have a very good relationship with thier parents growing up. So they caryy htis into adulthood and don't get that the rest of American is actually normal and well adjusted. Sorry for you and your disallusionment...........

 
At 7:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wah Wah Wahhhhh, piss and fucking moan. Listen, we lived through Hillary, oops! I meant Bill Clinton and his bullshit, you will survive 4 years.

And by the way, don't come to Georgia if you think that you are a married gay couple.

 
At 10:59 AM, Blogger Heather said...

Hey Assholes, It is because of people like you that our country will never be united so stop telling us to just suck it up. Its never gonna happen. Oh, and all of you who seem to think you're in the majority, look around. The only people who agree with you are the 51% of Americans who can't get their heads out of their asses. The rest of the WORLD thinks you are the saddest group of losers they have ever seen. I mean really, think about it. I agree John Kerry wasn't the best candidate. I agree that the Democratic party didn't do a great job. But even with all the downfalls, we still got 49% of the vote because people hate Bush that much. And if you expect me to sit here and smile in support as you strip my rights away you can forget it. If you backwards republicans want to run the country for another four years, have at it. Turn this country around and make it reflect everything YOU stand for. And when you get drafted or can't afford to go to college or pay for healthcare,when you lose YOUR job, when the rest of the world starts attacking us, when Your rights get taken away and when your friends and family die in this stupid war , you can console yourselves with the fact that gay people still can't marry each other and pregnant 14 year olds will be bringing unwanted babies into a world of poverty and bigotry that you created. Also, I have a great relationship with my girlfriend and just because we can't get married doesn't mean we're going to stop loving each other, stop having SEX or stop fighting for our rights. WE ARE NOT GOING TO STOP EXISTING JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T APPROVE OF US!!!! So you suck it up and deal with it, because there are millions of people like me and we'll see you at the next election so we can clean up the mess you have made of our country.

 
At 12:05 PM, Blogger Joe said...

To Heather:
I assume you did not choose that lifestyle. I don't think you realize the issue. I do not care if your are gay or not or why. It doesn't really matter. A man and a woman is natural as in nature (propagation of the species). This is a fact, not a Republican piece of disinformation. You want heterosexuals to view and accept you as normal. I accept that you like women and not men. Hell, I must be a lesbian too, because I like what you like Who cares? But you are not normal and I do not see why you should request that you be treated like nature is being served by your behavior. A marriage is by nature, tradition, history and real world between a man and a woman. You want all the benefits of normalcy when you are not normal. I hope you don't take this personally. I have come along way from thinking it was a lifestyle choice to realizing why in the hell would anyone choose homosexuality. It has to be very hard for you. You are welcome in the midwest and Texas, just be what you are, abnormal and quit trying to be something you are not, normal. It doesn't make me better than you nor worse. We are all the same in God's eye. But you will continue to be frustrated when you adhere to the mantra of loser DNC liberal radicals which you basically listed in your post.
Good luck
Joe

 
At 12:10 PM, Blogger Honsey said...

This is to the anonymous individuals who's apparently a shrink on being gay...I'm gay and my childhood, as well as my relationship with both my Mom and my Dad were perfect normal and I share with both of them what I consider to be an above average bond

But hey, thanks for coming out....next time have some proof before you make a claim...then again it sounds like you're a die hard Bush supporter so you probably think like Bush and don't feel you need evidence.

I will now answer your first question in response to the post. You asked,

How do you explain the turnout in the other forty or so states with no gay amendments on the ballot?

Firstly, I think name calling just destroys your credibility altogether. If you could learn how to argue the issues instead of the individual people might consider listen to you more.
Just for the record, I've never used pot and cannot be called a pothead.

The reality is that republicans did an excellent job of preaching to their churches. The religious right is a powerful force. So powerful that it believes it can control everyone in society - regardless of whether religion and state are seperate and regardless of whether people share their faith. The republicans convinced their followers that this election was an issue of moral obligation. That is why the numbers were so high, and that is why the republicans won those other states. Oh, and it helps that there's so many uneducated voters, rednecks, Christians who try to force their religion on others, homophobes and people who have just been terrorized by Bush to believe that Americans would be in harms way without his leadership.

The most amusing thing is that the religious right voted in favour of George W.Bush because he claims to be Pro-Life. Really? Tell that to the families of all the troops and to all the people over in Iraq. The religious right also claimed that John Kerry supported same-sex marriage. Really? Because as a gay individually I'm pretty sure that I heard him say that he didn't (LOUD and CLEAR) Just because he's not willing to change the constitution and sacrifice what America stands for doesn't mean he supports it. Furthermore, the religious right loses all validity when they turned this election into a religious election because BOTH Kerry and Bush are RELIGIOUS CHRISTIANS. It's not like there's an Islamic running against a Christian. Christians apparently can't even get along with each other - who knew Evangelicals had better morals than Catholics.

Frankly your comments about California is just rude.

Just for the record, 51% is not much of a majority. It's not like Kerry was defeated by a landslide so lets not get cocky. 51% doesn't even pass a test, but hey, Bush was a C student so I guess he's happy cause it's a step up from his days at Harvard!
That's 51% of voters too. That doesn't even include the people who were turned away, or who didn't vote at all. Not to mention that the majority of the people that I've spoken with - (that voted for Bush) - voted for Bush because they were afraid that John Kerry wouldn't be able to get us out of the mess Bush has created - NOT BECAUSE THEY SUPPORTED BUSH, but because of fear. fear that NO ONE CAN GET AMERICA OUT OF THE MESS - NOT EVEN BUSH.

So to the anonymous person - there's a reason why there's a limit on the number of years a president is allowed to serve and that reason is George W. Bush.

Enjoy the next 4 years while they last.

 
At 12:12 PM, Blogger Joe said...

Hadji
If you want to quit being taken for granted quit voting as a block each and every time for the same dips that haven't done a damn thing for you. You pressing D when you vote without thinking is exactly why you are taken for granted.
Joe

 
At 1:01 PM, Blogger chef gina said...

It seems to me that most of the comments from the Bush supporters are anonymous attacks on gay people and "liberals".

To Joe, who wasn't anonymous, marriage isn't natural; it is a socially constructed institution that bestows rights, benefits and responsibilities on the people who enter into that contract. I don't see dogs or cows marrying anytime soon. Indeed, if you look at the stats regarding marriage, it seems the contract is broken as often as it's honored. Perhaps people who want to strengthen marriage should focus on the aspects of it that are in danger: communication and commitment. I don't think having gay people marry will in way effect someone else's marriage unless one is gay and one isn't.

I think the American people now enjoy being lied to on a regular basis. They have voted for a liar for President and watch them on reality tv in droves. It's a good show. If the people ever wake up and find their wallets gone (look in the RNC platform for VAT), maybe they should take another look before they pull their kneejerk voting lever.

Democrats need to grow some spine and stop whining and patting themselves on the back when they cooperate with the opposition because they are afraid of losing.
Get back up on the horse and learn how to run.

 
At 1:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah how about that? Oregon voted for Kerry but against gay marriage. That means there's a whole bunch of homophobic Democrats, doesn't it? You people need to get your own Democratic house in order before it falls in on itself.

 
At 1:33 PM, Blogger Joe said...

To Chef Gina:
I did not say that marriage was natural, I said a man and woman was natural. You make a very good observation about communication and commitment. We eat animals and should not compare them to human marriage.

Americans are lied to everyday by a mainstream media with a very, very, liberal bias. The exit polls, CBS, NY Times, etc tried to influence this election. Whether we are liberals or conservatives we should be very concerned about a news media that lies and tries to create news instead of just report it. I expect politicians to lie. So don't tell me about Bush lies or conservative lies when the DNC used every soundbite, every news outlet and every pollster to tell us the election ws over at 5:00 pm on Tuesday. The only people than bit on that were you liberals. Why did we hear Bush say there were 1.7 million new jobs created and Kerry say there were 500,000 jobs lost on Bush's watch ( unprecedented in US history)? Now today, after the election, a liberal Bloomberg announces gleefully that 2,000,000 jobs have been added to the US economy. It is just one example of who the real liars are. And your acceptance of it is the knee jerk reaction. You have a long way to go, but we will open our arms to you when you wake up and get here. I hope you make it.
Joe

 
At 1:33 PM, Blogger Joe said...

To Chef Gina:
I did not say that marriage was natural, I said a man and woman was natural. You make a very good observation about communication and commitment. We eat animals and should not compare them to human marriage.

Americans are lied to everyday by a mainstream media with a very, very, liberal bias. The exit polls, CBS, NY Times, etc tried to influence this election. Whether we are liberals or conservatives we should be very concerned about a news media that lies and tries to create news instead of just report it. I expect politicians to lie. So don't tell me about Bush lies or conservative lies when the DNC used every soundbite, every news outlet and every pollster to tell us the election ws over at 5:00 pm on Tuesday. The only people than bit on that were you liberals. Why did we hear Bush say there were 1.7 million new jobs created and Kerry say there were 500,000 jobs lost on Bush's watch ( unprecedented in US history)? Now today, after the election, a liberal Bloomberg announces gleefully that 2,000,000 jobs have been added to the US economy. It is just one example of who the real liars are. And your acceptance of it is the knee jerk reaction. You have a long way to go, but we will open our arms to you when you wake up and get here. I hope you make it.
Joe

 
At 2:28 PM, Blogger Joe said...

Honsey, Honsey, Honsey:
Your from socialist-leaning country, your 24 and still in school in Fiji (in the middle of nowhere) and you are equating 51% of the Americans that voted for Bush as uneducated, controlling Christians and redneck homophobes. How worldly you are in Fiji and I guess you are above a C average student and it is amazing how much you know about the 58 million people that voted for
George Bush. Did you get that out of Sociology 101 or the History of Older Gay Women in South Pacific?
Keep studying honey, I know why you are 24, in Fiji and totally confused and needing another 120 hours to graduate. Take Reality 401 if you get a chance and Prejudice and Bigotry in Fiji, a Canadian Perspective also. You are exactly what you rail against, just look in the mirror. When you grow up and quit being a professional student and get in the real world....no, you will remain screwed up no matter what.
Joe

 
At 4:33 PM, Blogger Heather said...

First of all, I would like to apologize for name calling in my previous entry. It was uncalled for and I should learn to control my emotions better. That said, this little argument that we have here makes me very sad. Joe, you can go on thinking that I am abnormal if you want. Your definition of a normal relationship is obviously one that can produce offspring and I can't do that with my girlfriend. I still don't understand why you feel that that should keep me from being her partner legally as well as emotionally, physically, and financially but whatever. I do take being called abnormal personally, but I am happy and at peace with myself and my identity. Joe, what are the benefits to opposing gay marriage? What difference does it make to you who I marry? It's not going to affect you in any way at all. All you are doing by opposing gay marriage is withholding rights from people who deserve them. It is open discrimination. It takes a very prejudiced person to be ok with that. Really, Joe, I feel sorry for you. You seem unable to see the beauty of people who are not just like you. And that is going to be the downfall of this whole country.

Yes, I am angry that people believe that gay marriage is wrong, but I know that if they could just see how happy it would make so many people it might make them think about it a little differently.
And I know that abortion issues influenced this election greatly. I respect the lives of everyone and I understand where pro-lifers are coming from, but I am pro-choice. I am pro-choice, not pro-abortion. What I think pro-lifers don't understand is that making abortion illegal will not stop abortion. It will just make it more dangerous and twice as many lives will be lost. That is not a price we should be willing to pay.

Sorry, got alittle off track there. Anyway, while I can see the other side of the coin, I will never agree with it. I am sure the opposing side feels the same way. In many of these issues, there is no middle ground and that will be the downfall of this country unless something changes. We can't be the United States of America without being united.

One more small note to the opposing side: what we are asking for is to be given rights that we feel we deserve and to keep the rights that we already have. What you want is to deny us some rights and take others away. We are not forcing you to be gay or have abortions you ARE trying to forcing us not to.

 
At 8:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Minorities and the elderly, traditional Democrat voters, came out and shot down the gay agenda. You Democrats need to get it figured out regarding which special interest you're going to pander to.

No one yet has explained why Oregon went to Kerry but against gay marriage. Anyone?

You asswipes are too liberal even for your own party.

 
At 8:20 AM, Blogger Joe said...

Heather,
I apologize if I sounded like you personally were abnormal. I was not saying I'm good, you're bad. Your lifestyle is abnormal in the mainstream societal sense.
I will have to think hard why I am so opposed to legitimizing gay marriage.
Abortion is wrong, it is bullying an innocent unborn human. You do not have a choice morally. Of course, abortion will go on anyway. So will murder, theft and prostitution. It doesn't men you give in to it. As a Christian, I struggle with killing anyone, but I am for capital punishment as passionately as I am against this so-called right to choose. I deal with my hypocrisy by realizing the death row person could have made a better choice, had due process, and was determined he should die by a jury. The child has no one but the Mother to protect it, it has no due process, no one fighting for it. The female is the very future of the world. We men make a deposit, get a sandwich and watch football. You don't even need us after that. Your position is more sacred, more duty-bound to that infant. It has no one but you. You cannot have the right to choose, it is too important. If you do not want the baby it can be adopted. There are thousands awaiting this miracle.
Tell me why a lesbian gives a damn about freedom to choose anyway? This is why we are divided. Liberals are typically one worlders, abortionist, pro gay marriage, hate George Bush for no good reason, won't fight for anything
anti-military, want the federal government to run their lives and work to have their taxes increased. Conservatives are more for individual freedoms than liberals ever thought about, just with personal responsibility for your actions.
I wish you the best and hope you are happy.
Joe

 
At 11:28 AM, Blogger tolyaso said...

so at what point within the next four years does good old Jeb throw his hat in the ring.More Bush fires on the way?

 
At 7:02 AM, Blogger chef gina said...

To Joe and the other neocons:

The regular broadcast media is not liberal by any means or stretch of the imagination (if you have one). They stretch and bend and bow and scrape for the right wing of this country or why would they put a certifiable bigot and hate monger like Jerry Falwell on a prime time news show? This is a man you would get up and move away from on the subway like he was a crazy person if you heard what he was saying in public.

And Joe, these are your words:
"A marriage is by nature, tradition, history and real world between a man and a woman."
It might be history and tradition but "real world" is what is happening in the present not what we would like to see or what is shown on "reality" tv shows like The Bachelor; and marriage is not natural by any means.

I will continue to fight the religious fanatics with reason and my belief in humanity as a cause worth fighting for. Religious zealots have a need for an enemy whether in the mind in their fellow man. WWJD?
Love thy neighbor as thyself. There is no greater cruelty than man's inhumanity to man.

 
At 8:04 PM, Blogger CleverCynic said...

Then reflect on the fact that marriage is a government recognized status, much like a driver's licence which is also a granted privilage. I would argue that a license due to the current state of progress has become a basic right to pursuit of happiness, but the powers that be see it differently.

 
At 9:50 AM, Blogger Joe said...

Chef Gina:
Where have I said marriage is natural? I said a man and a woman is natural as in nature's way and as in propogation of the species. Marriage is a legal circumstance based on nature, tradition and law. You and other gay's want special rights and privileges, not equal rights and privileges. Why should I, as a taxpayer, have to pay for your unnatural circumstance? Why can't you just be happy with your "life partner"? No one, not me or the government, is stopping you from that. No one cares what gay people do in the privacy of their homes. At least I don't. You are not disallowed anything other than total acceptance in the community and a tax break. Why should you get it when marriage is defined as being between a man and a women? You want to revise history, tradition, culture and the meaning of words to make you feel better about your unnatural circumstance. I am not judging you, I just don't want to pay for your lifestyle.
Yes, Jerry Falwell is a goober, as is Michael Moorer. Sorry, I don't watch T.V. and know nothing about "reality shows". They sound like something you and other neolibs might enjoy and believe in (fake reality). I guess you are right about my lack of imagination. I simply cannot imagine a homosexual world. There simply would be nobody left in about 100 years. That would be so unnatural.

 
At 10:56 AM, Blogger CleverCynic said...

The big issue is that homosexuality is not genetic, it's psychological. That does not mean they feel they have a choice, because that assumes that we all walk around somehow attracted to the same sex, which just isn't the case. Pediphiles feel the same way, that they have no choice. This is only looked down upon because one partner is not old enough to consent, but is otherwise simply a preference by the same standard. Sado-masochists feel the same way and need to be abused and humiliated. Some people need to have their private areas choked off from circulation to purple. It is true that all of these people need to make a living. It is also true that we should not be beating them up and depriving them of life. But it IS a condition that stems from trauma or environment. Adopted children of gays have unusually high rates of bi-sexuality which no group condones as natural. Twins sharing the same genetic material are not often both gay. And of all things that ARE genetic, this is the only trait that is characterized by a complete lack of breeding, so it would have been reduced to extinction in a couple of generations. If it were genetic, then the best "cure" for this would in fact be to completely eliminate the stigma of homosexuality and allow them to marry. Then no one would be shamed into self-loathing breeding relationships and they would all be gone within the next 100 years. The problem is, that wouldn't happen, because family dysfunction will still continue to exist.

 
At 11:25 AM, Blogger Joe said...

CleverCynic:
Your argument almost sounds as if you are saying the being gay is a choice. I thought that was a "gay sacrilege" to even allude to. The higher incidence of bisexuality in gay adoptions is certainly another valid reason for them not to adopt under the guise of being married. Look, choice or chance, it is still a perversion of what is natural. Be happy, be together, live your lives but call it what it is and quit trying to make it what it isn't. You can fill in the blanks.

 
At 11:25 AM, Blogger Joe said...

CleverCynic:
Your argument almost sounds as if you are saying the being gay is a choice. I thought that was a "gay sacrilege" to even allude to. The higher incidence of bisexuality in gay adoptions is certainly another valid reason for them not to adopt under the guise of being married. Look, choice or chance, it is still a perversion of what is natural. Be happy, be together, live your lives but call it what it is and quit trying to make it what it isn't. You can fill in the blanks.

 
At 11:25 AM, Blogger Joe said...

CleverCynic:
Your argument almost sounds as if you are saying the being gay is a choice. I thought that was a "gay sacrilege" to even allude to. The higher incidence of bisexuality in gay adoptions is certainly another valid reason for them not to adopt under the guise of being married. Look, choice or chance, it is still a perversion of what is natural. Be happy, be together, live your lives but call it what it is and quit trying to make it what it isn't. You can fill in the blanks.

 
At 6:57 PM, Blogger CleverCynic said...

Ok Joe, back me up here, I'm arguing AGAINST gay marriage. People are saying they are born that way and I am saying that we already know that they're not, it's just not nice to print the studies or any race studies. In some cases its flat out illegal.

I am just saying that I acknowledge that none of them "FEEL" like they have a choice, any more than schizophrenics do. It's the same with phobias and a host of things in the same psychological category.

The problem that we are going to run into if we begin to support this, along with the adoption, is that if many children end up being gay or bisexual, we wouldn't even be able to stop it even with the evidence, because then they'll be in position to once again say "so are you saying that being gay is wrong?". So it won't matter what happens to the kids if we start saying it's just fine. AND, if they believe that their condition is normal as well, why in the world would they protect the child from learning from their behavior. And Again, a liberal would say so what is wrong with that. It's a never-ending cycle.

 
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