Monday, December 20, 2004

Bush to Reality?

Watching BBC News, their top story was Bush conceding that the insurgency in Iraq is, well, affected things there. Holy Mother of God! Really? I thought the totally liberal media was just ignoring all the good stories in Iraq in favor of bloods and guts and things exploding. Stunned at Bush's admission, I figured I'd see if this "story" held up. And it did!

The Times lead online story started this way:

"'We're under no illusions,' Mr. Bush said at a White House news conference. Some individual Iraqi units are ready to provide security, he said, but there are not enough of them to make up a cohesive fighting force. Mr. Bush declined to speculate on how long United States troops will have to remain in Iraq."


"Responding to several questions on Iraq, Mr. Bush acknowledged that the country's emerging security forces had performed 'with mixed results' and that some had simply fled after encountering insurgents. 'That's unacceptable,' he said. But he added that some Iraqi security forces had fought well at Falluja and other battle sites.

A day after insurgent bombers killed more than 60 people in Iraq, the president said such killers are trying to shake America's collective will as well as the Iraqis' resolve.
'We must meet the objective,' Mr. Bush said, 'and I believe we will.'

His last (and maybe first?) press conference of the year, lasting a gut-wrenching 55 minutes, Bush said the elections in Iraq will definitely continue even though less than half of Iraqis will be able to make it to the polls. Hell, less than half of Americans make to the polls for anything. If we're going to fix a country, we definitely can't make it better than this one. Hopefully Bush's advisors will continue to clue him into reality and let him read the newspaper.


At 6:03 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

And your point is....?

At 5:06 AM, Blogger chris in tulsa said...

Strange isn't it.. how everything that John Kerry said during the election is just plain true.. remember when Bush argued that it wasn't 200 billion, for the cost of Iraq war? Well, now it's climbing to 300 billion.. and Kerry said the key to Iraq is quality trained Iraqis.. and that we needed more boots on the ground and... well..

I have to say that the saddest part is that there is not one country in the world that trusts the United States. Today, I saw Tony Blair in Iraq, he was upset that the "rest of the world" doesn't understand the nobel cause that is the War in Iraq.. for democracy.

What a load of crap.. it's not about democracy.. it has always been about stability.. and having our footprint in the Middle East... I don't care what Blair or Bush say.. they don't really want democracy.. If Bush wanted true democracy.. he would have had that scumbag Karl Rove as his Campaign advisor. Can you imagine the games Rove would play in an Iraqi election? I am sure that whoever we want to win this "election" will win.

At 7:08 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Honestly, could you get a point! These are all things that people have known for a long time, but we started this and so we are going to have to finish it. Pulling out would create anarchy in an already chaotic society. Democracy is the only way that the people of Iraq can possess stability because under a democracy we are giving them a choice. They can "elect" Saddam if they want but they must have the power to choose at this point. We have the Bill of Rights and the Constitution defining our rights and liberties so why are the people of Iraq and the rest of the world entitled to the same? Maybe you should give up your rights. Do you think that you are better than the people of Iraq?

At 9:49 AM, Blogger Neo the One said...

Yeah, Democrazy is what Iraq is in a f**king need of.
Making George W. Bush "Person of the Year" is a joke - the next headline I saw on CNN was "Nearly 65 killed in car bombing in Iraq" - it would be funny if it wasn't that brutal.
Learn your lesson, USA: Get the f**k outta other people's biz!!!

At 10:28 AM, Blogger Curliqus said...

Hitler was also named "Person of the Year." And for those who don't get my point, here is a short explanation. Even a megalomaniac with no world or humanitary vision can be given what seems to be an honorary title. History will determine what kind of "Person of the Year" W has been.

At 12:41 PM, Blogger Fast Fred said...

errr....isn't democracy "stability" do we want a foot print in the Middle East, you bet and a democratic iraq
will give us and the world that.People die all over the world drunkin driving, aids, child birth,crime, by the thousands....focus........ people are dieing in iraq helping people become more noble can man be.The fighting man knows.Maybe not you or me or our mothers or even Bush....but the fighting man knows.

At 5:33 PM, Blogger Gustavo said...

My name is Gustavo. I am Journalist in Brazil, and I am History's teacher. Here in my country, the peoples are anti- Bush governement. Why This? Because mr. Bush has used the power of the most strong country of the world (in actuality) for destroier other peoples. Afegans and Iraquians are vitims of the "new Hitler"of the World: mr. George Bush. Freedom? But mr. Bush has over of nacional soberany in Iraq and Afeganistan. Our latin- americans not likes of republicans, because they are a "messianic vision" in relation of other countries and cultures in the world. But our warrior for nacional soberany in our countries. If mr. Bush came to Amazon forest (in Brasil), our Army go defend our soberany. People of Iraq have right of the defensive ataqs, because your coubtry have been ocupied for other Army, the U.S. Army.
Sorry for my english, and sorry for my declaration anti- Bush. But, mr. Bush is- in my opinion- the encarnation ok neo- fascism in the world, today.
Save nacional soberany of the peoples of the World!
Iraq is new Vietnam: U.S. Army will be loser.
Thanks for read my test. Good night!
P.S. my blog is:

At 6:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This entire Iraq war and the loss of every life can be blamed on one person..... George W. Bush. He is the lamest and most unintelligent excuse for a presidident this country has ever known.

I know the audience of this blog is worldwide, and I just hope you don't hold the helpless American citizens responsible for the inept policies of this government. These bunch of war mongoring ##$holes running the show need to be removed. A good majority of us Americans despise this president. This administration has done nothing but cause hatred and discontent in the world. The world was a much better place to live in before Bush became president.

Bush has failed among many things to:
- Secure his own country from terrorists.
- Capture the person (Bin Laden) responsible for 9/11 dead or alive.
- Protect his own countries borders.
- Win his own war on terror.
- Establish democracy in Iraq.

And now he claims he's going to bring "peace to the mideast"?

Since the U.N. has declared Iraq an illegal war and a good majority of U.S. citizens feel Bush took office illegitimately, I wonder what it would take for a bunch of nations to get together and put out an arrest warrant for Bush and his chronies on international war crimes? That would be so cool.... Bush and Hussein sharing a jail cell! Isn't that the reason he won't join the world court? Because he doesn't want the U.S. to be held accountable for it's actions? If we play by the rules all the time and we are the boy scouts this administration claims we are, what do they have to worry about?

At 9:03 PM, Blogger Joe Caggiano said...

You guys are unbelievable. If the U.S. had a history of taking other nations and running them as England did oh so many years ago, I might agree with you. We don't run the Japanese Goverment or anywhere in Europe,Korea or Vietnam(one we lost). You have the freedom to run off at the mouth on the web and in the U.S.. It's called freedom. Freedom has a cost.
The U.N. has had no teeth in their call for Hussien to let the world see what he was up too. we gave him every oppertunity.
There has not been an attack on U.S. soil since 9/11. Our free society leaves us open to the possibility that no money(homeland security) or every human effort could be made to keep us completly safe. For now though there is not a car comming down my street here in California loaded with bomb material.
In the end those that do not want freedom in Iraq must be elliminated. It is still early in this conflict and many will die on both sides for sure. Don't let the media tie the hands of our troops. Let them out in full force to find where these insurgents are hold up.
When this is over we will leave just as we have in prior conflicts. In our wake people can elect another Saddam if they wish. Something tells me that they won't. Freedom works everywhere it's tried. Teach that our Brazilian friend. Remember to teach the facts not some insane recreation of what you think is happening.
Beheadings and various ways of murder were the rule of the day if you dissagreed in Iraq. It is a new day that will come. Afgans have held elections and Iraq is next.

At 6:05 AM, Blogger Ulysses said...

Invisible Man:

I don't know who anonymous is, but he better 1) get his head out of the sand or 2) bury his whole body in the sand. This person would not know what true democracy was if it hit him in the face. Just as John Kerry would not know how to speak the truth if his millions depended on it.
The limo libs that came out of their holes for the election tried everything to defeat George Bush and failed miserably; so what else is new.
But these millionaire libs: Kerry,Saros, Striezand, Penn, Moore, etc.,did accomplish one thing: they sold all the lesser libs snake oil. Fortunately, all Democrats--moderate Democrats--were not taken in.

As this anti George Bush rhetoric continues, the President of the United States will continue to lead this country out of the mire of socialist policies, foisted on the American people for forty years. Those quasi socialist/leftist policies are coming to an end and idiots like Anonymous must love it or leave it. Enough said

At 8:10 AM, Blogger Russ said...

I'm not a particular fan of George Bush, but I wonder what it is that people really hate so much about him. I really wonder if it's him personally or his policies. In my case it's the latter, as I really think things could be done much differently and better. But then again I was critical of Clinton too during his tenure.

We are in a state of war now and must stand by our soldiers regardless if we agree with the policies of our government or not. We must do everything possible to bring them all home as soon as possible, but the mission must be completed. We cannot loose faith or give up at this point and our resolve must remain strong.

I think we will always have those on the extreme left and those on the extreme right disagreeing with each other and going "whacko". Fortunately the majority of us are fall in the middle somewhere and we are willing to work with those we happen to disagree with.

At 8:17 AM, Blogger Gustavo said...

In my opinion, mr. Bush is similary to Osama Bin Laden: is fundamentalist in relacion of religion and believe than is a "new profet" of God for take Gospel to other countries. But, in Iraq- I was reed in cristian newspaper in my country- catolics, protestants and jews had freedom of religion, in the past governemenet of Saddam Hussein. Why mr. Bush ataq Iraq? In really, he need of iraq's oil. Is the real motivacion for War on Iraq. But many americans voted in Bush, in last election. HE WAS REELECT FOR PRESIDENCY OF THE UNITED STATES. Peoples of the world are sad, because this. But Iraq Resistency will be vitorious. God is love and Justice, but Bush represent the State's terrorism and injustice, in the actualy world.
After Second War World, United States had and have a Empire, similary to ancient Rome. United States, specially in republican's governments, used your military and economic power against other countries of the Third World. Exactly how nazists, in the past. But Bush said than this is in the name of Democracy. Where is the true?
The idea of "preventiv ataq" is wrong. Bush only ataq countries than made oposition against your fascists acts.
I believe than our World will have many wars, in the next four years, because mr. Bush and your miliatrist ideology. Wars will begin for White House, against other soberans countries.
But other peoples will go resisty. Iraquians are most example for humanity, today. They are make warrior for your soberany and freedom, against U.S. Army and your leader: George Bush.
God save all peoples of the world of the destruccion. Peace nor War!

At 2:14 PM, Blogger D. said...

"If the U.S. had a history of taking other nations and running them as England did oh so many years ago, I might agree with you."
The U.S. has a history of controlling other nations through overthrowing their gov't and putting in pro-U.S. dictators. This happened in Chile, Cuba, Vietnam, Irag and Iran to name a few.
The CIA has a history of funding military takeovers of countries that elect socialist gov't the our gov't doesn't like. This is why no one believes Bush when he says that we're going to install a democracy in Iraq. There's a very long history of us undermining democratic gov't when they are considered "socialistic".
Unfortunately, the American public is ignorant of our history. They don't know that most wars lead to more instability not less instability. They don't know that terrorist attacks are not Islam vs. the West; they are the poor against the rich. Until we as a country start looking at the real cause/effects of terrorism we will continue to have violent attacks on our soil and against our people.
The war in Iraq doesn't address any of the problems that have led to terrorist attacks against us. The only thing it has done is increased terrorist attacks against the U.S.

At 8:12 PM, Blogger Liberal Chrystie said...

I agree with the last poster. The mess in Iraq has become a major breeding-ground for terrorist and has only enhanced their hatred for us. So much accomplished, huh... and we're really in a fine mess now. There is no way out. Think about it. No, on second thought if we think about it we'll all become dreadfull ill!

For the life of me, I just can't figure out how the other half of "us/US" really backs him up. Less they just don't bother researching their news and that might be the problem.

There was a blog I caught the other night... wish I had bookmarked. But this guy said it like it was and it went something like "when you needed help for this and that in this country, you can thank a liberal for it." And you know, he was factually right.

At 12:23 AM, Blogger Joe Caggiano said...

D, where are the U.S. controlled dictators in Germany, France and Japan. I don't remember us going to war with Chile but I do know what you mean by that one.Yes, we even sided with Hussien for an advantage over Iran. Politics make strange bedfellows for sure.
These people hated us long before 9/11 and they will continue too. We only acted after an attack on our soil.These are people that torture and death are their way of changing minds and hearts! Do we do that here in this country! NO, it is wrong. Or is somebody at your front door ready to pull a Hussien on ya. Maybe you would support him on second thought.

At 4:25 PM, Blogger Gustavo said...

Ok, comrades. Really think than God is cursing the U.S.A., because your wrong acts against other peoples. I am Cristian, member of Lutheran Church, and I believe in the God of the Bible. And Jesus, Son of God, said in Holy Bible: "God is love". But, mr. Bush made war against other peoples, and used the nome of God for justify your bad actions (in other words: military attaqs).
I am Brazilian, and really, in my country and your nacions of the Third World, many peoples don't like mr. Bush, because your attaqs and invasions against other nacions, how Iraq, in actuality. Ever against nacions of Third World. That is "wonderful".
But, now is 12/24, and tomorrow will be christmas day. All cristians, will go celebrate born of Jesus Crist. For us, He is the Son of God, the Mashiach (a jewish word) of the Humanity. In this day, pray for God than conflicts in the world will be finish.
Peace for all us, citizens of the world. God save us. God Bless Humanity. God bless our families and all families in the Universe! God Bless Palestinian's childrens, and citizens of Iraq!
Peace of Crist for all peoples!

At 11:35 PM, Blogger Joe Caggiano said...

Gustavo, as a fellow christian brother I disagree with your view of God cursing the U.S..We do not lay aside and allow anybody (terrorists) to kill at will. Listen 9/11 was the last straw for our country. God is about defeating evil. It seems you do not see terrorists as people that do evil things that provoke and perpetuate evil. We are to battle the King of this world (Satan). It is a spiritual battle for sure but when evil attacks we can respond and then some.
I'm sorry you and many of your friends to not agree wih Bush but he defending those who want to do harm to our people and our way of life. You would expect the same of your leaders I hope. There is the same opposition here for sure. Let's keep the terrorists away from our country. If they meet your high opinion you can let them operate in Brazil. These same people would begin to kill and mame like nobody business because they embody evil!!! I
In the end I find your position unbelievable. I'm glad you live in Brazil. we have enough of folks like yourself around here. In the end were heaven bound, we'll talk face to face then. Merry Christmas to all!!!

At 2:33 AM, Blogger D. said...

"D, where are the U.S. controlled dictators in Germany, France and Japan."
First of all, Joe we didn't go to war in WWII to make those countries democratic. They attacked us first then we had to make sure they wouldn't attack us again.

Secondly, Iraq was not a threat. The 9/11 commission has said so; and everyone knew so before the war, (even John Kerry but voted for it anyway thinking Bush wouldn't attack Iraq alone).
Iraq's neighbors: Iran, Syria, Saudia Arabia, Turkey, even Kuwait did not feel threatened and were against Bush's war; and remember Iran and Kuwait had already been attacked by Hussein but they didn't support the war.
------------------------------------------------------"I don't remember us going to war with Chile but I do know what you mean by that one."
We didn't go to war with Chile, the CIA payed the Chilean General Pinochet to overthrow the democratically elected president in Chile. So, our record of supporting democracy is spotty at best. I say this because it's the truth and you cannot achieve a clear and cohesive foreign policy without recognizing our errors as well as our mistakes.
Pinochet tortured and killed hundreds of thousands of his countrymen and this is an outcome of policy of overthrowing socialist democrats in favor of conservative dictators.
Our country has to own up to these errors and recognize that when we say, "we support democracy around the world" people are reticent to believe us because of our prior actions.
"We only acted after an attack on our soil."
IRAQ DIDN'T ATTACK US!!! They didn't support Al Qaeda, Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11.
The war in Iraq has to do with trying to make a permanent footprint in the middle-east and secure Israel's borders.
These Neo-Cons thought they could turn Iraq into a pro-Isreal democracy without changing any of Isreal's policies against the Palestinians.
"These are people that torture and death are their way of changing minds and hearts! Do we do that here in this country! NO, it is wrong. Or is somebody at your front door ready to pull a Hussien on ya. Maybe you would support him on second thought."

Hello? Have you heard of Abu Gharab?!? Bush ordered the torturing of prisoners in Iraq, and now evidence of torture in Guantanamo Bay and Afghanistan are popping up.
So you see we have become more like Saddam to try and liberate people?!? It's maddness and dumb. This war cannot achieve it's stated goals because they were based on an assumption of Iraq that was completely wrong and the continued violence only proves what I'm saying is right.
Joe, you need to look at yourself and figure out why you support this war so blindly. I believe our nation still has a "Vietnam complex" and we're trying to re-fight that war. The problem is we, as a country, didn't seem to learn the lesson of vietnam. The answer wasn't blind support of the troops and larger military forces. The real answer was not to go to war in the first place.

At 7:39 AM, Blogger Gustavo said...

I agree with D. Really CIA acted interfiring in many countries for defeat governments than made opposition at U.S. Policy.
In my country had a dictatorial military government (1964- 85), after of CIA and your friends – bishops and industrials than had sympathy for Washington politic position anti- socialist- make our elected national government with some of our soldiers. This fact happened in 3/ 31 of 1964.
Since 1961 our chairman was João Goulart, a leader of Labor Party of Brazil (PTB) than had alliance with communists, socialists and rural’ s workers. But U.S, Stabilshment was think than Goulart was a “communist”. After of 3/31, when Goulart was defeat for military forces, our country had 21 years of a Dictatorial government. White House support for these dictatorial government. Why? Because wanted defeats socialists governments of the world “incarnations of evil”(sic). Really was sad. Many patriots was killed, in my country, because your politic ideas. And the Uncle Sam defense “our” military government and the racist government of the South African (Apartheid under blacks and white peoples). In the name of Democracy? I don’t believe in this theory.
Joe: no only terrorists, but the Chairman of your country are “provoke and perpetuate evil”. Study, my friend, the History of the MIDDLE- EAST. Those peoples was and are victims of international humiliation, in many years. Those are humiliate for the U.S. (and, in the past, to British Empire and French) because your habits and culture and religion ( Great majority of peoples are Muslims, not Christians) . And, They are the majority of oil of the world. And this caused coveted of the more strong nations.Other problem in the middle- east is the Palestine Question. In 1948, the United Nations (UN) decided than Palestine Territory will be divide under two peoples: Jews and Palestinians. But, only Jews had your National State. And, in the context of the “Cold War” (under USSR and USA), White House help Israel and Soviet Union help Palestine. Today, Israel have the fifth more strong Army of the world, and Palestinian only has a police without your National State. This is Justice? I Think Than this situation is humiliating. But Uncle Sam think different...
Uncle Sam help your “small” friend Israel with money and military technology. And Palestinian continue without your rights. And, U.S. , continue help only Israel. What you think this, Joe? Where is the Justice?
Really I had some Jews in my ancestral family. But, I don’t agree with this war without Palestinians and Arabic peoples, in actuality. I am favorable to Palestine State and against intolerance in relation of Arabic Peoples (those ideas: “many Arabs are terrorists” or “all Arabs are fanatics” is prejudice to him).
Now, in the end, I ask to comrades than read my text, than goes to my blog ( and writing message, OK?
In My blog, some posts are writing in Portuguese language, but others are write in English language. After read messages in English, comment in the post, OK?
Merry Christmas for yours comrades. God Bless your families and your friends. God bless peoples of Iraq and Palestine! God Bless all peoples!

At 9:33 AM, Blogger Russ said...

I think we are all in agreement that this war in Iraq needs to end. Regardless of why the war was started, we now need to look to the future and how to bring our troops home with as little death and destruction to both sides as possible.

I think the first thing those in charge have to do is define what exactly they think a "victory" actually is. I would not expect this administration to just leave Iraq. For some reason I just don't see Bush doing that - he will never swallow his pride at that level.

I personally do not like Mr. Bush, but I will defend him when I think he is right. I do not think he was right (knowing what I know now) about invading Iraq. But having said that, I felt it was justified at the time with the information that was force fed to me and the rest of you prior to this war's beginning.

Who would have ever thought that the mighty military industrial complex(es) of the time (Ancient Rome, USSR, Hitler's Germany, and many others) would ever fall? It's important to remember that just because we are the big boys on the block and just because we are the United States doesn't mean we can't get our asses kicked.

If Bush thinks he is an "agent of God" or is facilitating the end of the world, the end times, or anything along those lines, he truly is a sick bastard.

Merry Christmas everyone (or Happy Holidays or Happy Festivus if that offends anyone).

At 2:17 PM, Blogger D. said...

"I felt it was justified at the time with the information that was force fed to me and the rest of you prior to this war's beginning."
Everyone knew before the war that Iraq was not a threat. The Democrats that supported the war did so to cover their asses before the 2002 elections (John Kerry included).
Like I said before, all of Iraq's neighbors were against the war including 2 of it's previous enemies on the battlefield (Iran and Kuwait).
Before the war, Hosni Mobarak, president of Egypt, said, "if you invade Iraq you will create 1000 Bin Ladens."
Bush wanted to go to war to put a permanent military pressence in the middle-east and to protect Isreal. If he had listened to any of the people who knew the area and the region he would have known that the plan would fail.
As far as how we're gonna get out of Iraq, I don't think our gov't wants our troops to leave. Bush will allow these soldiers to continue to die until he's out of office and then we might have a different policy, depending on who's President in 2008.

At 9:01 PM, Blogger Joe Caggiano said...

Look, I'll say it again. The U.N. gave Hussien every chance to come into compliance regarding his weapons. He also fostered Al Quida and they had a presence in Iraq. Every country agreed to the threat that he posed. Dems ans Rep. had the same info and the world concured.
Terrorist of the area have joined Iraq in this battle. Countries like Kuwait,Iran and you can even say that S. Arabia fear the kind of freedom that can come from giving freedoms to people that they have never had them before.
Gustavo, We must support Israel. The palastinians have not produced much from what the world has attempted to give them to fund a state for them. Araphat did nothing but keep the money for his good not the good of his people. Like setting up a structure of goverment that can be openly supported of without the threat of annilation of it's nieghbor. I'm glad he's out of the way now. Living together may be possible but there may never be true peace.
The U.S. has done many things to foster it's way in the world(sorry). I think we are learning. With the information age of today it is much more difficult to pressure countries as we have in decades past. We are out in the open on this war. Letting down the good people of Iraq by moving out is not an option for me to consider.
Blindly support the war yes somewhat. I believe the battle is a just one and anything less than an outright assault with the military calling the shots period.. President Johnson directed bombing missions from the whitehouse in Vietnam. A pathetic way to fight a war. It's no wonder we pulled out.

At 7:36 AM, Blogger ap0c said...

"I swear to God, even if they burn all the elections centers, we will still go and vote," said Ali Waili, a 29-year-old taxi driver just after terrorist car bombs slaughtered 60 in Karbala, Iraq.

Funny, leftwing scum throughout the world want us to fail while Iraqis just wanna vote for a leader who won't slaughter them. When did the left become pro-fascist?

Here's what a todo list of the typical liberal might look like:

1. seethe, whine about Bush
2. see above
3. ditto
4. uh dunno
5. forgot what i was doing here.

At 9:23 AM, Blogger Russ said...

Here's what a todo list of the typical liberal might look like:

1. seethe, whine about Bush
2. see above
3. ditto
4. uh dunno
5. forgot what i was doing here.
I saw a lot of right wingers doing just that during Clinton's tenure.

I don't think all "leftwing scum" as you call them ApOc, wants us to fail in Iraq. I know this because I share some liberal ideals and want us to succeed very much. Funny, but I find more name calling and hatred comes from the conserative republicans (and religious right) of this country than does from the left. Your liberals are really the more peaceful ones. You would think it would be the other way around, but then again more wars have been waged in the name of religion than for any other reason. (maybe "4 more wars" was actually the perfect campaign slogan for Bush/Cheney).

Iraq will never be a free and independent state as long as there is an American military presence there and as long as every time we tell the Iraqi president to crap he asks what color.

and D.,
Although slightly skeptical, I did give Bush the benefit of the doubt before all this started. I now know this was wrong but at the time I did trust my President (I bought the lies too and I admit I was wrong).

Rock on oh' mighty bloggers!

At 11:45 AM, Blogger D. said...

Look, I'll say it again. The U.N. gave Hussien every chance to come into compliance regarding his weapons.
Joe, You know the U.N. opposed this war. You're contradicting yourself when you use the U.N. as a legitimate governing body and then forget to mention they OPPOSED THE WAR.

He also fostered Al Quida and they had a presence in Iraq. Every country agreed to the threat that he posed. Dems ans Rep. had the same info and the world concured.
Terrorist of the area have joined Iraq in this battle. Countries like Kuwait,Iran and you can even say that S. Arabia fear the kind of freedom that can come from giving freedoms to people that they have never had them before.
Joe, again this is totally untrue. You should know by now there was no connection between Saddam and Al Qaeda. The 9/11 report said so, the CIA said so, and if you read my previous post, which you refused to answer, I mentioned Turkey as being opposed to the war too. Well, they are democratic and a muslim nation. they share a border with Iraq and were not threatened by Saddam.
Also, you seem to think that a democratic Saudi Arabia or Iran or Iraq will be pro-U.S. and anti-terrorism. It's much more likely that the Islamic fundamentalists will control any representative body in these muslim countries.

"Letting down the good people of Iraq by moving out is not an option for me to consider.
Blindly support the war yes somewhat. I believe the battle is a just one and anything less than an outright assault with the military calling the shots period.. President Johnson directed bombing missions from the whitehouse in Vietnam. A pathetic way to fight a war. It's no wonder we pulled out."
Joe, you still haven't learned the lesson of Vietnam. The Vietnamese wanted to choose their own gov't. We should have never gotten involved.
Bush has made the same blunder into Iraq. The Iraqis, no matter how much they hated Saddam, want to choose their own gov't. Since, Saddam was not a threat, there was no reason to attack Iraq.
Joe, Bush also directed bombing missions on Falluja. The city was free on insuregents for the short time our troops were there. Now, the insuregents are back to running things there.
Joe, all your reasons for supporting this war have been proven wrong. You need to look at your own selfish motives for wanting war in Iraq. You want to be proud of your country then find other ways to do it then defending Bush's rash decision to go to Iraq.

At 6:47 AM, Blogger Edwin said...

Ok, now you really got him...he is stupid! Bush just realized what all of us great smart Americans knew...that war is not pretty and that things don't always work the way we plan them. Wow, I am gad he just realized it now. Now I am sure things will go much better. Grow up people. Try doing Bush's job for one minute. Get over it. It could be worse...he could have lost the election!

At 11:58 AM, Blogger Gustavo said...

Comrades, sincerely than the most dangerous country of the World in actuality is the United States. And this because your national government: Bush and Cheney. This government will attack all countries than challenge your international interests.
Joe, about Iraq, is important remembered than since revolution of Baath Party (Socialist Party of all Arabs in Iraq), in 1960’s, the C.IA don’t like of them. This because Baath- the Party Socialist- had alliance with communists. In 1970’s, Saddam Hussein, Minister of Nation, created a system of public and free hospitals and schools, and promoted a electricity’s system for all peoples. Really, the life of people of Iraq had many improvement’s in government of Saddam and of the Baath.In 1980’s Saddam, president of Iraq since 1979, had that war against Iran. This because Komeini was a dangerous fundamentalist leader of muslins. Saddam- and the Colonel Kadafi- was leaders of nationalist Arab movement. And that movement was socialist and anti- Israel and your “father”: U.S.A.
The pressure of United States against Iraq, since 1990’s, in United Nations, happened because Iraq had many Oil in your territory, and Iraq – in Saddam Hussein’s government- was a policy anti- Israel. Because all this, US wanted defeated Saddam and Baath. Against Saddam too was Tiny Blair, First Minister of Great Britain. Tony “Blush” and US government lied speaked than Iraq had a hidden dangerous chemical arsenal. But, where is that dangerous arsenal? That’s don’t exist. This is great true! But, Bush and “Blush” of England lies about this.
But National Resistency of Iraq Will Champion against U.S. Army. Is the new Vietnam, Joe. And, in this case, U.S. Army will defeat!Save Iraq Army, and Baath. There are the most example of Resistence, for Thir World, now!

At 12:21 PM, Blogger D. said...

Edwin, if the job is too hard for him to do he should quit and find something else to do. Your sarcastic statement belies how insecure you are about the situation in Iraq. Instead of blind faith in Bush, you should be speaking out against the war, which is the best way to change our policies there.

At 6:19 PM, Blogger Joe Caggiano said...

D, The U.N. Security council voted to take an action of force if Saddam did not comply. The whole U.N. did not get to vote on that resolution. Now if you say a number of countries are against the war, I would say yes because they fear the same kind of action being taken against them.These different nations are dictators and despots and thugs that will kill people in their own countries to keep power. This does not happen in this country(in case you don't live here). These leaders fear the basic tenents of freedom. You know that WWII had Japan attacking us but not soon after we attacked Germany. Terrorist that would harm us again have gone into Iraq good!. Good stratagy to me.
D, you have convenetly not addressed the all out evilness of these people when they were in power in Iraq and now as they "fight" for their country. The people of Iraq did not posess the freedom to elect a new leader. The last election had Saddam winning with a 100%. There must be real freedom goin on there. Saddam allowed Al Queda to have training basis in Iraq. Was there outright support of them no but it was a passive support of someone who hated the U.S.
You have Bush ordering the detainees and others being abused, where did you hear about that, on NPR. At this point there is no proof just Dem speculation.
D, respond to the outright evil of the terrorist mind set. Even before we got in there they were abusing and killing people. Do you support that! I hope not.

At 9:29 PM, Blogger Russ said...

I don't mean to butt into your conversation with others, but I felt like throwing my two cents into the hat. To answer your last question from my point of view... I don't support or agree that despots and evil tyrants should be killing their own people.

However, having said that, I also do not feel we should be the world police force or be in the nation building business, spending massive amounts of money and/or resources policing these other nations when we have people going hungry here at home, a healthcare system that is practically the laughing stock of the world (for one of the richest nations on earth as well), and when we are laying off large numbers of manufacturing jobs because jobs are being outsourced to a country that is slowly becoming the biggest superpower and largest military machine ever (China).

The United States is a small fraction of the population on this planet and we don't need to be the saviour for the rest of the world. Things don't happen overnight and Bush didn't need to do this invasion into Iraq so quickly. Afghanistan on the other hand, was proper. He rushed Iraq and consequently we have a quagmire (there's that pesky campaign word again).

Do I have compassion for those that happen to be suffering under their leaders.... sure I do. But as an American, I have more concern and compassion for those suffering here and it's about time the people of this country stand up for what is truly right and demand more from their leaders rather than what will make a certain group of politicians or corporate moguls wealthier.

At 9:42 PM, Blogger Joe Caggiano said...

Russ, do join in. In hind sight it looks like a bad situation for sure but we can with the total support in many ways defeat the terrorists that have gathered in Iraq. It seems Osama has given prince status to the Al Sakari in Iraq as of today.
Where do people go when they want to get the very best care? the U.S. I'm sure D can attest to Canadas great healthcare system.Ha Ha.
While Osama struck at us. The first Trade center bombing, The Cole bombing and other attacks. We as a country did not fund or regroup the neccessary force it would take to deal with an upcoming threat that Osama would bring to us.
In this time Mr Clinton did not solve any of these problems you brought up. There was money to solve these kinds of problems may have been there but good o'le politics got in the way. Our country cannot agree on the course of action can we.
This step towards Iraq has begun the process of rooting out terrorism. A threat that threatens the very freedoms we have here in the U.S..
Poverty, there will always be poverty. You could give every person a certain amount of money each week for their whole lives and many people would make choices that would leave them hungry. In this country they have the freedom to make a wrong choice. You may want to play in the middle of the street(moderate) You state your clear choice here. Goverment cannot solve all the problems of the human condition. The U.S. offer all that a person could need to be successful. The goverment offers many ways to help along the way but all helps should be temporary.
Welcome to the fray.

At 9:06 AM, Blogger D. said...

"D, you have convenetly not addressed the all out evilness of these people when they were in power in Iraq and now as they "fight" for their country. The people of Iraq did not posess the freedom to elect a new leader. The last election had Saddam winning with a 100%. There must be real freedom goin on there. Saddam allowed Al Queda to have training basis in Iraq. Was there outright support of them no but it was a passive support of someone who hated the U.S."
First of all I've said this before but you don't want to acknowledge that going into Iraq made things worse not better for the people of Iraq. Even the first Pres. Bush said so in his autobiography.
The facts on the ground right now show that the war has not worked. It's costing us more to stabilize and secure the country then it was to maintain economic and diplomatic pressure on Saddam.
As far as the U.N. not getting to vote, Bush gave up on a U.N. vote when he realized he wasn't going to get the votes to go in. And the U.N. is not a body for only democracy it's for all countries to work out problems diplomatically before things escalate into war.

After WWII we didn't want to have wars deciding the fate of nations because wars are too costly.

"You have Bush ordering the detainees and others being abused, where did you hear about that, on NPR."
Bush ordered the bombings on Falluja after the 4 contractors were killed and dragged through the streets in that city. Now you might say "We have to protect our citizens" but the U.S. military was against the plan but Bush ordered the city bombed; and that was said on CNN at the time way back in April.

Joe, you're ignoring my question for the THIRD time. Why do you support Bush's rush to war? All your pro-war arugments were proven wrong again and again. Do you even have a reason for supporting this war?

At 5:19 PM, Blogger Russ said...

for the most part you and I are in agreement on some issues. There are a couple points I would like to clarify.

First, through your use of words you make it sound very easy to defeat these terrorists (I am smart enough to know that's not what you meant). But it will take much more than words and much more than just mighty American military muscle (which I'm not convinced is so mighty) to defeat them. These terrorists span the globe and for every one we take out, we create tens if not hundreds more. Their children are bred to hate Americans and cultures from the west. Palestine is a prime example... you have 12 year olds carrying ak47's and chanting Allah every chance they get. We are truly perceived as the great "Satan". Whether there is truth to that I will leave it up to the hard core political junkies to hash out between themselves. Bottom line is that it will take a global commitment from every civilized nation on earth to even do serious damage to terrorist organizations. Sure we've captured a few here and there and admin. chronies like to sugar coat everything and tell us they are destroying their network, but I've got a newsflash for them..... It's growing exponentially almost daily. With the advent of the computer and information age there are now more radicals and American haters than you can shake a stick at. George Bush, I fear, does not have the support necessary from the rest of the world to solve any of these major issues. He's done a wonderful job of "angering the hornets nest".

The best medical care is in the US, true. But here I am barely making ends meet and I have to pay 500 bucks a month for health insurance plus cost for rx's. It's being provided free to many others in other countries like Kuwait along with free college educations to all their citizens. I can't say we dont have some good facilities and good things going on here in the USA, but tell me the United States has the best of everything and I'll sell you some ocean front property here in Arizona. It's a prosecutable offense for a senior citizen in this country to go to Candada and get prescription medication. Why? thier drugs don't pass our standards and are not approved by the FDA... Oh yea, look at vioxx and all the other recalled drugs they've been pumping into our system for years. Our FDA really has it's shit together.

I could go on about a whole bunch of other things I think are messed up in this country but it would be nothing more than rhetoric you've likely heard from other sources so I won't bore.

I'm not trying to win any debates here and I am set in my ways. I've served my country and countinue to serve my local governement. I can't say I ever got anything in return for my investment into the military (I'm just glad my tour in the military was before both Iraqi wars because to be quite frank, my ass would not be over there fighting a cause I don't believe in - but that's me and I'm being honest).

I beleive in God very much but I am not part of the bible thumping crowd and infact have much dislike for their ways. I also do not like Government pushing religion or our president wearing it on his sleeves. But at the same time I don't get pissed off when someone tells me happy holidays, happy hunnnakuh, or merry Christmas. To me that means people are being nice in their own way and I accept that.

I will sum up by saying it has been a pleasureable exchange. Politics and Religion have always gotten people fired up. I think there are much more important things going on in the worlds right now that we as a human race should be concerned with like the TSUNAMI disaster in SRI LANKA, the worst natural disaster possibly in the history of the world according to Reuters.

Please everyone, keep those involved in that tradgedy in your thoughts. It will touch countelss lives and families all over the globe.

Sorry this got so long. I don't intend on my stuff getting so long but then I get going..... you know how it goes sometimes.

At 7:59 AM, Blogger Joe Caggiano said...

D, the first Bush let the people of Iraq's ressistance down. They paid a price for their opposition of Saddam. Death may have been it. The people of the Baath Party were the only ones who flourished in Iraq. No freedom for all there.

Let see 8 years or more of sanctions, 18 months ramping up to the war when at all times all he had to do is let inspectors in NOT the U.S.

There are many facets to the war on terror. D, you have not addressed the pure evil of terrorist at all. Most of all when this society experiences freedom they will turn from the present way of thinking.Granted it will take time. Evil fears freedom.

Just terrible the events in indonesia

At 12:44 PM, Blogger D. said...

First, i deal with the lies. The U.N. inspectors were let into Iraq in Dec. 02. The searched for a month and found...NOTHING.
Hans Bliks, (the head U.N. weapons inspector) wanted another month to check for weapons but Bush declared inspections insufficient and pulled the inspectors out.

This war has absolutely nothing to do with freeing Iraqis. As you know, the neo-cons have been clamoring for this war since 1998. They believed they could put in a friendly gov't who'd be an ally to Israel.
Now, anyone who knew a thing about Iraq would have told them that a democratic Iraq would not be friendly to Isreal since the Palestinian conflict is seen in a religious context there.

So again Joe, your reasons for supporting this war are proven false.

When you start tossing out political rhetoric like, "the evil of terrorism" and "freeing the Iraqi people" etc. you insult the intelligence of everyone here including the Iraqis who, as we can see on the news everyday, don't want your kind of freedom.

If you really want to fight terrorism you'd be arguing for an end to Isreal's occupation of the West Bank and for alternative fuels.

The president has done a good job of turning the public's focus away from his incompetence and towards our troops. He waves the flag, talks about a war of good vs. evil and how he will reshape the middle-east with military might.
So while you celebrate the bravery of our troops, he's sent them on a mission they can't win. Supporting our soldiers in combat is all well and good, but you still need a reason to go to war in the first place.

At 6:43 AM, Blogger Gustavo said...

C.I.A and Bin LadenOsama Bin Laden is commander of Al Qaeda, a strong terrorist organization of Afeganistan, with guerrillas in many places of the world. But many citizens of America don’t know than was C.I.A than was train Bin Laden and many members of Al Qaeda, in the past.
In last of the 1970’s, the Communist Party championed national elections in Afeghanistan. But, was in “Could War”: USSR (socialist)x USA (capitalist). And, C.I.A was train radical Muslims against “reds without God”(Communists). The chief of fundamentalists Muslims was Bin Laden
, a rich and fundamentalist muslin.
In 1989, Soviet Army goes out of Afeganistan. Then, radical Muslims of Al Qaeda looking for other enemy of Islamic Civilization: Christian (and Jews) americans and other of the West than wanted impose your “democracy”(Way of Life, etc) and habits. Then, Al Qaeda became the most strong (invisible) enemy of U.S.
In 1980’s, C.I.A support Saddam Hussein’s government without Iran, in Iran- Iraq war (1980- 1987). Today, Mr. Bush said than Saddam’s Government was “evil”, and than Bin Laden is “chief of the evil”. But Bush and many americans forget that’s facts of past in middle- east (about Bin Laden and Saddam).
Dear Comrades, and my friend Joe: If Hussein’s government and radical Muslims are the “evil”, then C.I.A is the Mother of the evil! And US governments too. Ronald Reagan (in the past) and George W. Bush are the commanders of Evil’s attacks against other peoples. This is Great true!
Joe, read texts of Noan Chomsky. He report the bad policy of U.S. in the middle- east.Happy new year for yours, comrades.
Happy new year for all peoples of the world. Peace and Justice!


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