Wednesday, November 10, 2004

Pop and Politics--Real-time Election Journal: 11/07/2004 - 11/13/2004

Pop and Politics--Real-time Election Journal: 11/07/2004 - 11/13/2004

Your Values?

There's been a lot of talk about values -- but what do you hold close to your heart? Your religion, your family, democracy, helping others, etc. I'd love to hear what you have to say about this topic -- and perhaps pull together your comments for an article on -- kate


At 1:47 PM, Blogger Sushi Wonton said...

My values are things like living simply, helping others, speaking kindly. They are not things that are debated about fiercly on shows like "The O'Reilly Factor."

Maybe that is the problem.

The story "Rahula Leads The Way" is a simple way of describing my values.

At 4:11 PM, Blogger stella_maris said...

My values have been influenced by Buddhist philosophy a lot. I believe in individual freedom, first and foremost, in respect and responsibility towards oneself and others, and that one should restrain from intentionally hurting oneself or others. I believe that life is about learning and change, not about maintaining status quo. That just about sums it up, I think.

At 4:31 PM, Blogger bigun said...

My values are based on Christianity. Love your neigbor as yourself. Jesus didn't ignore sin though. I think pop cultures "do your own thing" is destructive for society. We're all about pride. We think politics can solve lifes problems. It can't. It all starts within yourself. Have love and compassion on each other.

At 8:47 PM, Blogger Paul Alexander Dorfman said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At 8:49 PM, Blogger Paul Alexander Dorfman said...

Nice site, i just wrote a related article in response to a review i read of values in the film the incredibles. you might find it amusing.

my blog

At 10:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think as was mentioned earlier that is important to be nice and be respectful. I also believe that that is GOD who made us and has a plan for us to return to him. I don't think a GOD is just someone hanging out watching us bounce off one another. He is our literal Father in Heaven and we are his children. He wants us to do righteous things and behave like good little kids while we grow. I don't believe he wants us to just satisfy every selfish whim that comes along. Thats just to get started....

At 10:21 PM, Blogger PuzzledPatriot said...

I value honesty, integrity, responsibility, justice, and respect, just to name a few. All qualities I find sadly lacking in Mr. Bush. I am greatly puzzled by those who seem to think he possesses a surfeit of these virtues.

At 6:01 AM, Blogger josephine said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At 8:23 AM, Blogger Philothea Rose said...

My values are summed up by the phrase used by Pope John Paul II, "The culture of life." I believe in a government that not only protects life itself, but also promotes the quality of life. I am not republican or democrat because neither party does this to my satisfaction. Neither party protects human life from the point of conception to natural death. And as far as quality of life issues, well, do you pay too much for gas, life in a smog infested city, pay too much for health care, have too much in taxes taken out of your paycheck, live in a city where police and fire departments are underfunded, send your kids to schools that don't have enough resources, and live near people whose jobs have been lost (and lives been upheaved) due to outsourcing? We all do. And these are the thoughts that pretty much sum up my values when I vote.

At 9:11 AM, Blogger Dr. Science said...

Want to do something about it??

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and start talking to the world that you're dominating.

At 11:59 AM, Blogger Albert Saur said...

George Bush once famously said that his moral philosopher was Jesus Christ. At the time I was taken aback at his statement. Aren't most Americans, at least those in politics, Christians? It seemed to me to be an evasive answer to a serious question. Since than I've been thinking about how I would answer the question. My answer is that my moral philosopher was my father. He was not a born-again, bible-thumping Christian, but he had a deep sense of morality, of what is right and what is wrong, and how both individuals and society as a whole should behave.

In the 1930's he thought that racial prejudice and discrimination were wrong. He thought it was wrong to smear a high school girl's reputation because she had a secret abortion. He thought it was wrong to take advantage of anyone. He thought it was wrong and scandalous to trumpet one's religious dedication as a means of attracting customers to one's business or of attracting voters to one's candidacy. (I can just barely imagine what he would be saying today about our President.)

Most people find it convenient to relate moral values to religious teachings. One can argue that the moral values came first, the religion later. Certainly the modern religions of Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism were founded by known individuals at rather precise dates. Did morality and values exist previously? Of course. Buddha, Jesus, and Mohammad took the existing moral values and incorporated them into their religious teachings.

I can go on and on about what I believe is moral. Perhaps I'll write something at greater length and post it on my own blog site (

At 1:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

My values are who's a Christian and who's not. I'm sorry, I don't mean to get into religion, but to me it would be really scary to have a president who wants to take under God out of the pledge of allegiance. I'm glad Bush won!!

At 4:47 PM, Blogger Briska said...

My values are pretty liberal, but also very close to me. I believe in the rights of homosexuals to marry, I believe that stem cell research's possible ends far outweighs it's means, I believe in freedom of speech and religion (as I am pagan).

I also value the thought that our political system is uncorruptable concerning religious beliefs, but now... not so sure.

At 6:54 PM, Blogger CleverCynic said...

I am a scientist and economist. I'm not sold on the existence of God. I DON'T believe that single people are unequal or inferior to married people. I think abortion is pretty intuitively wrong and am just more surprised that anyone would actually make that choice even if given it but I'm clearly wrong about that. Republican approach to economy is empirically superior and always has been. I think people should love their kids and keep them so we don't need to argue that gay adoption solves that problem. I would prefer we didn't correct for bad behavior at the expense of life or as a preliminary sanction to other bad ideas. I believe we should help people but as Kerry says, I can't take what's an article of faith for me and legislate it on everyone else. I think all of the arguments made to support gay marriage are just regurgitations of ours for the unborn, if you reject it there then don't expect us to buy it when you do it. The difference we make the argument to justify moral things and you use it to justify immoral things; at least that's the viewpoint. I advocate hard/smart work and believe success is a function of that and this country lends itself to that above all others. I believe this country is great and wish to preserve it, if you think it sucks then I understand why you would change it, however, I think we're the ONLY country of our kind and your preferences can be found anywhere else, of course with all the pitfalls that approach to government has resulted in as well... sort of the Genie-lamp syndrome. I believe that the advent of satellites, fed-ex, real-time communications, and the internet has caused global and inevitable transitions with respect to the new feasibility of outsourcing and changing business, and that it is foolhardy to blame a single man or believe another one can change it. I believe it is more honest to pave the way for self-responsibility so we can adapt as humans than to imply that they should sit tight and wait for the monster to be ousted so government can fix everything. I believe that if there is a fundamental mistrust in government that it is intellectually dishonest to want a huge one that runs everything and that the government should always be incidental to the people and only jump in in times of complete disaster. I like Europeans, though the only ones I really know are the ones that got out of dodge, but I am not in awe of them and do not wish to end up with their unemployment rates, welfare states, static innovation, and general dependance on the United States for economic stability and overall security.

That's it for now.

At 7:21 PM, Blogger Conservative American said...

In his farewell address to the American people George Washington said:

“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens.

“Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in the exclusion of religious principle.

“Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion.” [See “George Washington: Farewell Address,” in William Benton, pub., The Annals of America, 21 vols. (1968–87), 3:612.] 13

At 9:33 PM, Blogger little big said...

To begin I don't affiliate with any religion. I do believe in the inherent right of ALL humans, this includes people American administrations not just Republicans are so quick to whisk to the margins of existence. I feel that every soul on Earth has the right to make a satisfying and healthy life for themselves and their families. I also believe in Democracy, the kind where the will of the people actually dictates the parameters of its rule. I believe that health care is a right not a privilege and that all people really are equal, it is just the class based racist system of oppression under which we all live that isn't.
my blog

At 6:28 AM, Blogger mouththatroars said...

All this moral values go by the way side if in the next four years this president keeps making bad decisions that puts this country in bad status when relating to the rest of the world. Moral values did not win this elections,a badly run campaing by Kerry did!!

At 6:53 AM, Blogger Sherry said...

Morals..what a joke!

The bush administration that was voted in for moral reasons, astonishes me

They are so into big business that they allow to get away with polluting the environment, underpaying people on wages, paying little or no taxes, sending jobs to other countries. Folks this is immoral

Believing in god is not enough to make you a moral person it is what you do for for friends, neighbors country, and the world. Caring about others health, caring about others having a decent standard of living. Caring about the land we live on that is passed to future generations. These are moral values.

Using god and the bible is just a copout. I am so sad to see people really believing that the gay marriage, abortion issue is the only moral issues that were voted on.

If all the moral issues would of been considered as they should have. Bush would not be president

At 2:46 PM, Blogger CleverCynic said...

"Morals - what a joke!" Yes you heard it here folks, thank you for articulating that Sherry!

Anyway, most of your argument for other morality issues is grouped with economy. We were polled hundreds of times as to whether we thought the economy was good or not. You took it for what it was worth, but what they never asked us was whether or not we attributed that to Bush. For the answer, just look at a chart of the economy for the last 50 years. The only difference this election made was who got credit for Bush's economic recovery. Had Clinton not been re-elected you can bet he'd be slammed with some pretty poor numbers. Truth is, it's not the president anyway. The 90's were a product of one man - Bill Gates.

At 1:28 AM, Blogger D.R. said...

I believe that all people have a right to believe how they want. However, I believe that those who hold to certain positions must be willing to place them against competing positions and weigh them out. After weighing them out, they must choose the most right and logical position, not the one that makes them feel the best. I believe that after doing this I have chosen the best route, which is holding to the Bible as the authoritative standard by which I judge all of life and culture. I think that in today's society all people have to realistically and cognitively engage the Bible and conservative Christianity and conservative Christians in turn have to engage the culture. Otherwise we will never understand each other. I have written a weblog to this end. It's called Christ and Culture. Check it out at

At 5:24 PM, Blogger stella_maris said...

"I believe that after doing this I have chosen the BEST route, which is holding to the Bible as the AUTHORITATIVE STANDARD by which I judge all of life and culture."

Fair enough. But what makes you think that Christianity is superior to other religions?

At 10:26 PM, Blogger CleverCynic said...

You could easily argue it from the angle of the promise of prosperity for adherence.

One of the main reasons the combatant wing of the Islamists hate us is the lack of reconciliation of their belief to where it has led. The U.S.A, and quite frankly Europe and just about everyone else is a blight on this perceived promise.

I am Republican for primarily cognitive reasons, but I agree in any case that it is a noble ambition to approach life from these moral teachings which I just happen to find intuitive anyway.

At 10:04 AM, Blogger Honsey3 said...

I agree with Sherry.

And I also think the whole idea of...
Christian = better morals = bullshit

Being a Christian does not mean you're a good person and frankly, I find this offensive. To be honest, I've been through Christianity and find that it's people are the most, uncaring, selfish, segregated and business-like hierachy in existence.

Going to church or believing in God doesn't make you a good person. Being Christian doesn't make you better than a Jew, or an Atheist, or a Buddhist. Lets snap back to reality for a second - Christianity is the root of most of the problems in the world and wars throughout history. The crusades were wrong, Hitler was wrong, converting natives was wrong! Some morals Christians displayed in those cases!

The bottom line is, you can never step foot in a church or a religion setting and know morals. You can know right from wrong, and you can know the 10 commandments should be followed without ever picking up a bible! It's common sense that you shouldn't kill, or steal, or cheat on your spouse and yet even Christians break those rules so how can you claim morality is Christian? Good people, religious or not just don't break those rules of common sense.

As far as moral regarding homosexuality and abortion - it is highly open to debate that the bible has and will always be misinterpreted by man and therefore I do not agree with using scriptures to formulate laws. Period. Everyone can find an argument in the bible to back up their bigotry because even scriptures in the bible contradict each other! Stop listening to the head of your congregation, stop being lazy and open up a bible and actually read what you're being preached before you develop such strong opinions on one side of an issue or another because frankly, the bible doesn't mention abortion at all, and if it does, it's in favour of abortion!

At 10:11 AM, Blogger Honsey3 said...

Oh, and to answer the question,

I value my family, my frienships, my spirituality (not organized religion) and freedom, equality & acceptance (not just tolerance) for everyone and their unique and beautiful differences as human beings.

At 10:48 AM, Blogger CleverCynic said...

The most objective shot we have at determining or understanding morals stems from the consequences of actions. I am not Jewish, but certainly the notion that pork rotted quickly was a good bit of intelligence to any who would listen. We of course solved this problem with technology and cooling systems, so something that was immoral by that standard certainly would not be now. Another is that sexual promiscuity of women would lead to underprivelaged and disadvantaged children. However, the way we have solved this problem is by taking something that was just a bad idea and correcting for it by what many see as outright murder. Certainly this cannot be the method by which sexual freedom becomes moral. However again, in the day of Roe Vs. Wade, there was definitely an argument in favor of it since people WERE in fact engaging heavily in this activity and the most high-tech solution was "pulling out". Now, however, we have the same technology that made eating pork now moral or acceptable by a multitude of contraceptives, and I believe it is now time to encourage those as the solution to this problem. Perhaps we can view this period of 50,000,000 + abortions as a terrible period in time while we made a painful transition to sexual freedom w/o the proper technology to make it ok.

If abortion were only legal now for each and every reason pro-choicers say they need it, certainly we could all live with that. And technology is such that even if you are going to sleep with a stranger this evening you can still be prepared.

Again, I'm not religious, but the bible does not address abortion, or even a round Earth for that matter because no one had even thought it up yet. The arguments you refer to that you would have mean abortion is really cool are the ones I mentioned before, not to grow bastard children. This speaks to promiscuity of women, not supporting killing the offspring to make it ok. I'm no mormon, you offer that ass I'm gonna tap it, but it doesn't mean it's a good way to live and it's only exciting due to the decadence and conquest of it. Unfortunately it's just not quite the conquest it used to be so I think we (men) draw far too much esteem from it in the modern world.

AND, I know a lot of people get disenchanted with the church and hold on to their spiritualism, but I think that's backwards (this is not political). In a scientific world, it is questionable as to whether God or divinity exists, but certainly the true power of God is the church for all its problems, the homeless shelters, feeding the poor, assisting the estranged and battered. It is likely that it is only because of the church that the hand of God is dynamic in the world at all.

At 8:57 AM, Blogger JoeyPier said...

At 6:54 PM, CleverCynic said...

Great thinking CleverCynic. Specially when you said "I think abortion is pretty intuitively wrong" I didn't want children but suprise! Not for a second did we consider abortion. Honestly I don't think we knew what it was. Never talked about it.
Can you clear something up for me. You said "I DON'T believe that single people are unequal or inferior to married people." I've never heard talk that indicated that to be true or implied or even expressed. Maybe I don't understand the context of this statement. Help me out here.

At 5:40 PM, Blogger CleverCynic said...

Sure JoeyPier, I'm simply saying that gays argue for marriage from the angle of civil rights or "Equal Protection" which would suggest that we regard them as inferior. I'm just saying that no one has ever argued or would agree that single people are inferior to married people, so the argument is just dumb. Marriage is a state recognized institution like a driver's licence which is said to be a priviledge, and in either case is recognition of having met certain conditions.

At 11:50 AM, Blogger InspectorCliche said...

I value freedom above and beyond anything else.

At 6:38 PM, Blogger jomama said...

I value the ability to say "no" to anyone
and make it stick.

All other values are irrelevent to me.

At 8:20 PM, Blogger Mrs. Dr. SeanMom said...

My values?

Very simple.

Ten commandments (which you've probably heard of); Two commands (love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul, mind, and strength, and thy neighbor as thyself); and a Great Commission (go and make disciples of all nations...). Ordered liberty, personal responsibility, family, freedom, and faith. You can find out more at Dispatches from the Religious Red Zone (

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