Friday, November 05, 2004

Hope is on the way?

Hope is on the way?

Grief, disgust, despair, and utter disappointment.
Not disappointment in Kerry, Bush or the GOP, but rather American Democracy in 2004. I can't help but have a feeling of a Democracy that has failed me. I firmly believe that American Democracy is only as strong as the people and the news media. But where have they been?
The media has forsaken us and the people are lost amongst the Murdoch's of America.
But what can we do?
How can we do it?
Cause we need a change.
And that's when the grief kicks in, because when Kerry walked out, my hope left with him.



At 3:09 AM, Blogger stella_maris said...

I feel the same way ... only I had no hope in American democracy (or what's left of it) to begin with so I guess I'm not as disappointed as you are ... Also, I'm not American myself so I'm rather baffled (and so is the rest of the humanity) by the notion that Americans elected Bush once again after all he's done instead ... I mean, why guys, WHY?

At 6:03 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's pretty easy to say why the US voted to keep our president. There was no alternative. Kerry has no keel, no guiding principles, is willing to do or say "whatever sells", hawked his pseudo-hero activities in Vietnam, rallied the enemy with his anti-US comments in 1971, voted for 20 years against the best interests of the US while in the US Senate. Further, Kerry "had a plan" for every real or imagined ill in the US. We never saw the "plan". Just that "he had a plan".

Mostly, I think the US (me included) was just tired of hearing Kerry's crap.

The Night Owl


At 6:27 AM, Blogger stella_maris said...

That's fascinating ... I always thought that the lesser of two evils was supposed to be Kerry.

At 6:29 AM, Blogger Glenn Mayo said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At 6:31 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

At 6:03 AM, Anonymous said...

...nothing but unsupported, party-line rhetoric.

Let me try your tactics. You know, Anonymous, where you spout opinions as fact, accusations as truth, and for fun, be sure to throw in plenty of insults...

Here we go:

George Bush is a moron and a coward, just like you, Anonymous. He scooted his way out of Vietnam (not surprising for a cheerleader from Andover) but likes to parade around flight decks playing dress-up. His command of the English language is like that of an ESL student. He's resolute, all right; he does stick to his decisions. Right or wrong. "Just keep goin', fellers...right off the cliff." His fiscal policy has been a disaster, resulting in massive deficits and debt. He attacked a country solely because the dictator of that country once threatened to kill his daddy. He looks like a monkey, and he certainly has no plan, not even to speak of. He couldn't care less about the millions of people who voted against him, and he thinks the squeaker of an election (which he once again stole, it's becoming apparent) is a "mandate." He's a fool, and there are plenty of people in this countyr who are VERY sick and tired of him. We just don't happen to screw our sisters and watch NASCAR.

And since I'm a big pussy, like you, I'll post this anonymously...

At 7:06 AM, Blogger rob said...

help has been right at your fingertips for a long time.
just go to any liberitarian web site, read, and then vote.

At 7:33 AM, Blogger Josh said...

I really wanted Kerry to win, mainly because he would appoint Howard Dean as the head of HHS...

He would definitely get rid of a lot of gunk that has been plauging HHS, especially NIH... ^^;;;

At 7:33 AM, Blogger Richard Nixon said...

Actually Bush was the lesser of 2 evils. And We elected Clinton after all he had done so why are you surprised. I am pleased .

At 8:47 AM, Blogger stella_maris said...

I'm not familiar with every little detail of Clinton's domestic policy but as far as his foreign policy (that I'm able to judge pretty well, seeing that I'm not a Yank) is concerned, he was a really good president. He was capable, intelligent, open-minded, he had a vision. He was both respected and liked. GWB on the other hand ... well, nevermind.

At 9:20 AM, Blogger Planet Patriot said...

PLANET REVOLUTIONProgressives organize and resist. Just griping (however gratifying and self-indulgent) ain't enough!

At 9:32 AM, Blogger Queenie said...

I hope for the sake of your country, Bush takes a hard look at how close this race was. I hope he remembers he is to be leading you and not into the things he was for his first term.
I hope he does, because most of the rest of the world is scared of him and what he might do.
Bill Clinton rocked.


At 10:10 AM, Blogger Ladnar the Great said...

Bush is just a puppet on corporate strings. He won by arrousing "Christians" and their Holy Agenda.(Thou shall not kill MY ASS) Americans wanting to preserve the Bill of Rights and keep separate church and state need to organize and not sit on their thumbs for the next four years.Let's start by keeping dialogue open and not meekly accepting the Right's Agenda.

At 10:26 AM, Blogger stella_maris said...

But do you seriously think that it's possible to beat the so-called middle-American majority that stands behind the current president? With what's going on in the world today, and considering that the only source of (mis)information about world events they have is FoxNews, I'm afraid that they're only going to increase in number ...

At 11:10 AM, Blogger frank said...

democracy is about voting and having a choice. It is about speaking your mind, it is about peacefully protesting and having the right to do that. It is not about who the president is or does, it is about the fact that we can choose and disagree and continue to have that right to chose and disagree. We may not like the choices, we may not agree, but the people voted and that is what democracy is about. Sure, I think George Bush sucks, but in a democracy the people have the right to think different from me and you. Democracy is on trail, but you have to believe that the American people, in the end, will do the right thing. It may be a bumpy road, but the truth will win out and the mistakes this president makes will be seen by all, and yes, even those who voted for him can change their mind and vote in 2 and 4 years. Democracy isn't perfect, out system isn't perfect. But I rather live here even in this divided country

At 1:15 PM, Blogger Tim said...


We live in a Republic, not a Democracy. You would really hate a Democracy.

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands,"

At 1:52 PM, Blogger Redeye said...

It's very difficult to unseat an incumbent. Even more so in the middle of a war. Why? Because of the slippery slope wherein to criticise a President seems like taking sides with the enemy.
The right went for the jugular with personal attacks, Look at the screed above, every accusation comes straight from Bush's ads.
Ultimately, Kerry's demeanor rang true with the undecided and the independents.
But it was too late. The damage had been done.

At 1:59 PM, Blogger Ben said...

ok, people are a little screwed up if they voted for Kerry/Edwards. Kerry is fine with KILLING PEOPLE'S LIVES!!!!!!!!! Its a little thing called abortion. And what about GAY MARRIAGE! That is totally unmoral, untraditional, and very sick. This country/society/human race is going downhill. I think that technology will eventually overpower us, and then we will all kill eachother either by mistake, or a war.

This is Ben signing off......

At 2:00 PM, Blogger alan j. f. said...

I think it's mainly because we always choose to reelect our President in a time of war.

As long as we kept talking about fighting terrorism as a war against the terrorists, our mentality is always to let the President finish the job that he has started, no matter how incompetent he may have been in his conduct of that war.

I chose Kerry not because of the way he has talked, but because of his records as an investigators. He has participated in cleaning up scandals, bribery, cartels, and other affairs, so I would have loved to see him clean up the mess and restore America to honor.

I think this shows that Bush is a much better politician than Kerry is. A politician charms, convinces, and lies. Kerry did none of that. I mean, the very fact that he talked about voting for and against the proposition shows his utter honesty in piece of mundane legislation. No good politician would have gotten himself into a trap like he did. Bush, for example, never admits his mistake and always, always tell people, "You know where I stand."

The only way that Kerry would have been able to lie would be not to tell the truth, rather than outright lie. So he said, "I have a plan," but he could not elaborate because that would have been spun, abused, and taken out of context by the GOP machine.

At 2:05 PM, Blogger Morgan said...

Look at it this way:

No senator has ever unseated an incumbent President. (Senators have a harder time getting elected Prez than governors, typically.)
No challenger has ever unseated a wartime President.
Kerry came within the closest margin in history to doing both.

We're all looking at this, shaking are heads and going, "But Bush is the worst President in history! The Economist, the New Yorker, even the Lone Star Iconoclast and one of the editors of the American Conservative were on our side! How could we lose?"

Remember that the neoconservative movement (not the conservative movement, I consider there to be a difference) has been waging war on our way of thinking since Nixon. It's hard to believe that once upon a time, "liberal" meant that you believed in liberty and freedom. Many of us (myself included) weren't alive when Nixon won against McGovern by painting him as a "liberal" as though being a liberal meant you were some pinko hippie commie wierdo.

My point is that the neoconservatives have been waging a culture war against us for decades now, and liberals have been losing ground the entire time. And yet we came within 140,000 votes (possibly less, depending on how the provisional count goes in Ohio) of unseating a wartime incumbent.

Bush went on TV after the election with a smug smirk and said that the voice of the people have spoken and that he has a mandate. However, despite having all the cards stacked in his favor, he came within inches of losing. We can't forget that.

At 2:08 PM, Blogger Aldo Quispel said...

*gasp* the US is/was a Democracy? I always thought you guys where a republic that moslty lived in the illusion it was a democracy. Perhaps the real shock is not that the US is not a Democracy, but the realisation that it's not thinking it was?

ps. very sad to see some right-wing-born-again-christian-nuttjob comments here. Christians who want to oppose their view and believes upon the world are not just the same as fundamentalist muslims, but also not Christian in the sense Christ ever was. What ever happend to doing good to those who do you wrong? *sigh*

At 2:32 PM, Blogger Redeye said...

I think the left needs to quit self-flagellating, which only feeds into the feeding frenzy.
We need to write our Congresspeople and let them know Bush has no mandate.
We need to let elected Democrats know that we expect them to have backbone.
We need to keep up the pressure on Clear Channel and Fox and boycott their networks until they present a "balanced" point of view.
We need an effective Minority Leader. I'd like to see an e-mail campaign to tell our Senators that we won't take politics as usual, we want to see Chris Dodd as Minority Leader or someone equally bright, ambitious and articulate.

At 2:51 PM, Blogger Russ said...

The right is wrong and the left is wrong. Conservatives need to come back to the center a little and so do the Liberals. Both parties need to appeal to the masses a little bit more than they do.

We've lost something in America. People in this country are too consumed with their sports, sex, cell phones, and bling. They no longer research issues to truly know where candidates stand. They vote on such garbage as how each candidate looks or what some hate radio talk show host is pumping into their ears every day. They never bother to check facts. Nobody reads books anymore and everyone relies too friggin' much on the internet as gospel. In other words.... People are no longer independent and free thinkers.

I don't want this to sound arrogant, but of all the educated and intellectual people I have come across and spoke to, most voted for Kerry because they see the path this country is going down. The majority of the Bush voters I know well are blind to so much of the crap that goes on in Washington or they just refuse to beleive that all three branches of our government could in a remote way be somewhat corrupt.

At 3:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is quite simple. 59 million of my fellow Americans are just stupid. Period.

At 4:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

visit my political blog at

At 5:21 PM, Blogger Ron S. said...

I just created a new blog to help progressives deal with the post-election world. Please take a look.

Hang in there!

At 6:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is hard to fathom why someone who ignored the Al Queda warnings regarding 9/11, put our country into record-breaking debt, let healthcare, jobs and social security slide into ruins, caused 100,00 Iraqi and over 1,000 American lives lost, and helped only the rich and his rich cronies make money off of the government--could be reelected. I am very worried that over 50% of the voting public is certifiably stupid. As Gary Trudeau (a schoolmate of Dubya's) stated (I am paraphrasing here): "No one expected him to amount to anything, not even his parents. He was just the guy that got the kegs for the parties."

Now THAT is a great leader. Really looking forward to the next 4 years. Armageddon, here we come.

At 7:21 PM, Blogger Rhiannon said...

Um, Kerry didn't walk out on you, he didn't win the election. Say it with me: Kerry Lost. Ugh.

At 8:00 PM, Blogger concord said...

I feel the same exact way... I just hope we can take it back. I haven't lost hope completely, but it's going to take a lot of work to get the country on track. We can do it.

At 8:50 PM, Blogger Scott said...

When Kerry stepped down, my hopes grew because I knew this was a true leader seeking unity and not a divided nation. His message was clear. He did not want to challenge the beast on these circumstances that would have caused more anger and upset around the nation by prolonging an election that would not be given up by the political giants.

Where have they been (people/news media) you ask. Well, the people and the news media have been hiding behind their ignorant and careless masks of despair. They're too afraid to speak the truth. They're too afraid to stand up for their beliefs. They're too afraid to agree with the ideals held by their attackers. They're too afraid to move forward with their needs because their wants have overtaken their lives.

What can we do you ask. Well, If lies and deception got us to where we are, then the answer is in the contrary. We must change. That doesn't go for everyone else but you. It goes for everyone and most importantly you. The further ahead we move, the more sacrifice it will take.

How can we do it you ask. Well, forget about normalcy and excessiveness. It's no longer an option. The World is on to us. We are the most evil country simply because we are full of ourselves and think we deserve the world. Oh, of course we go out on humanitarian efforts, but that's just a half-ass cover to pillage and abuse.

I know people are clueless as to what to do in the face of an enourmous power. However, I think it's important to realize that the people are giving them the power. As soon as the masses unite to bring down the house of hell, then we can finally move on in a peaceful way. It's not going to take John Kerry, Ralph Nader, or any other potential candidate. This is just placing all your hopes into an individual. Our society does not depend on it's leaders. It depends on all of the people as a whole. John F. Kennedy said it best. "It's not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."

It's going to take a revolution. We must realize that this is the only option. This doesn't mean that we all have to get together and protest the government. That is bogus. We must begin within each and every person. We must reflect on the people that we have become. We must reflect on the things we have simply become used to doing. We must reflect on the world around us. We must reflect, reflect, reflect, and SACRIFICE for our future.

Once you have truly become honest with yourself, then you may be ready to spread the message of peace. It can't be pushed on anyone. They must be willing to change themselves and be open for the message and their task toward creating peace.

Last night, my thoughts were running wild over all these issues. I was asking myself so many questions that could not be answered. So, as a person with no religious affiliation, I prayed. "Please, Please give me a sign." It was not before long when the moonlight caught my eye through the blinds hanging over my window. It resembled the crescent moon symbol of Islam. I took it to heart. It was truly a sign. So, now I ask of everyone. Look for your sign. It doesn't have to appear when you are looking for it, but just be aware that there are signs of spiritual guidance everywhere. If you can be most honest and strong while being sincere to a sign, then you may find your way to peace.

At 8:59 PM, Blogger j o said...

At 1:59 PM, Ben said...

"And what about GAY MARRIAGE! That is totally unmoral, untraditional, and very sick. This country/society/human race is going downhill."

why should there be a law to restrict it? i hate how this govn't is run by the "morals" of christianity? why should the bible constitute the laws of the people. gay marriage..just because christianity condemns it as a sin, why must christians have to enforce their "moral responsibility" to "save" these people from being gay? i think that's unjust. there are other religions in the united states, not just christianity. as for abortion, why not? it's not your baby. whether it is alive as a living being when it is concieved or during a certain trimester, it's subjective, BUT aren't there cases such as rape victims? should we not make EXCEPTIONS for them? oh..some people say "but that's DIFFERENT..there are EXCEPTIONS". NO. abortion is abortion..whether it is from rape or not. as a female myself, i wouldn't want to have a baby of a rape.

oh. whatever. i'm sick of those people who keep claiming this election as a "moral obligation" to make the laws of this diverse country "christian-based" or whatever. stop forciing your religion onto others. we don't appreciate it.

At 9:14 PM, Blogger Rhiannon said...

Quote: When Kerry stepped down

Again, he didn't "step down" He just LOST. What a bunch of whining loosers you are. Admit it HE LOST. KERRY AND EDWARDS ARE NOT WINNERS THEY ARE looooooosers.

Wake up and smell the loss of a senate seat and presidency...there is a Conservative country now. You had 8 years with Clinton and now you'll have another 4 with Bush. The pendulum swings....and it's a beautiful thing.

At 10:17 PM, Blogger Lois said...

Are you upset about the election? Do you want to be part of a large-scale response to Bush's victory?

Post-election news reports cited exit polls claiming "we" voted the economy while "they" voted moral issues. I believe most Kerry voters and Nader voters define themselves as voting on moral issues. Let's learn from those on the Right. We must be vocal and visible about what moral issues matter to us.

Here's what you can do:
1. Make a list of the moral issues you voted on, from poverty to mercury poisoning to war. Be as prolific as you can. Carry the list with you so you can keep adding to it.
2. Starting MONDAY November 8 or as soon as you can thereafter, compose a daily email naming one of your moral issues. The content of the email should be a single sentence: "Poverty is a moral issue." "Mercury poisoning is a moral issue." No tirades. No attacks. Just one definitive sentence.
3. Send the email to as many news outlets, government officials, conservative organizations, etc. as you like. Please always cc a copy to so we can track the campaign. Once you've got the list of issues and of recipients, the campaign should take no more than five minutes a day.
4. Forward this email to concerned friends. Over 56 million voters cast ballots for either Kerry or Nader. If only a small portion of us send an email each day, we will inundate the media and the politicians with our message of a progressive morality. And, since morality transcends age and nationality, those too young to vote and those who are not American citizens are welcome to join the campaign.

That's it. Unless you want to go for the bonus rounds:
Bonus 1: If you work for a news outlet or know someone who does, use your influence to secure media coverage of the campaign. To interview the creator of the campaign, email

Bonus 2: Steal this idea. Put the phrase X "is a moral issue" on anything you'd like: t-shirts, bumper stickers, whatever. Make progressive morality visible anyway you can. All I ask is that you either sell the items at cost or donate all profits from the sales to an organization that deals directly with the issue (for example, if you sell things that say "Hunger is a moral issue," donate the proceeds to America's Second Harvest). I'm trusting people to honor this request. Greed is a moral issue!

We need to stay energized and active. We need to demonstrate our numbers and our political commitment. We need to learn to speak about our morals in ways that will appeal to some of the people who voted for Bush. We need to use our progressive morality to challenge Bush's policies, because a narrow margin is not a political mandate. This campaign will be a crucial first step to changing the debate — and the election outcomes — in our nation.

To learn more, log on to

Some addresses you might need to get started:

At 11:48 PM, Blogger lamont said...

I fear that the majority of the people that voted for Bush voted based on moral issues (e.g. abortion and gay marriage). Those people are able to ignore what he has done with the economy, the environement, the so-called war on terror, and the fact that he has completely ignored the problems in our urban areas. Since this country is not a theocracy I'm confused by him receiving a scond term. As long as the issues of abortions and gay marriage dominate our collective political conscious we will remain a divided country. Please leave moral issues to be between you and your clergy and not a public issue.

At 2:11 AM, Blogger Scocla said...

Grief, disgust, dispair, disapointment ...
Welcome to the New American Political Areana ... but then again is it really all that new? True - Democracy has let US (pun intended) down. Or has it? Who IS in control? Rule of Democray is 50%+ says what goes - and by my estimation it is working ... only the Business Dollar (oops - Treasury Note) has the majority vote. "We the Corporations of the United States, ...". Whats next ... One World whatever. I imagine the Worlds People will have about as much influence as us Americans do today in our land. Remember the political system we of the good ole USofA were founded under? Does Republic ring a bell? Yup, this IS a representative government, but WHO does it represent?
Ask yourself - are you a citizen? Of what? Is the Supreme Law of the Land enforce today? I hate to add to your general quandery, but where WE are today has been in the works for quite some time. Think it's gonna get better? If Hope Is on the way, I think it should hurry ... some times Too Late is just too late.

At 2:59 AM, Blogger dougo said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At 3:09 AM, Blogger Morgan said...

I find it funny that whenever a group of people get together and say, "We can do better. How can we do better next time?" somebody comes along and says, "Stop whining."

Constant improvement, striving for something more, learning from failure and figuring out how to do better.. these are American values. Yet some people prefer stagnation and status quo.

At 3:11 AM, Blogger dougo said...

Every four years someone cries in his or her beer, because someone lost a run for President. This time it was John Kerry. He lost because 4 million more voters said Bush, not Kerry.

It seams to me that most of you are trying to place the blame on one thing or another, and down grading the winner. If just 14% of the Kerry voters brought an extra Kerry voter he would have won.

I brought my extra voter and Bush won. Not everyone can be the smartest but I read or heard that Bush scored higher than Kerry on his military IQ test, I could be wrong.

We have many problems in the USA and I doubt they can be totally solved by the left or right. Too many small groups want more than there fair share. If you want change, work for your change and use the beer to toast your change not to cry when thing do not go your way. I have been around almost 22,900 days and have seen good & bad things happen. I know one thing Government can not solve all your problems, so make Government as small as you can and work hard for you & yours.

At 3:19 AM, Blogger Poor Richard said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At 4:05 AM, Blogger Charlie said...

Im so pleased Bush won and kicked all those Hollywood media phonies into touch. Whats so wrong about having strong moral values as oposed to chaos.

At 4:38 AM, Blogger stella_maris said...

What's wrong with having strong moral values ... ?

Nothing, really, but it's wrong to impose those moral values on others! Moral values ARE NOT universal! Just because Bush is a born-again Christian who stubbornly disapproves of abortion and gay marriage doesn't mean that EVERYONE has to, too!

At 6:43 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I understand your feelings of despair. I can relate to the frustrations. I guess mine were not as bad when the campaign was over because my expectations were not as high as some of the Senator John Kerry campaign nor was I supporting him. I even felt these same feelings many of the Kerry supporters are feeling now before the campaign, while many Democrats were beating my ideas and hopes up. I’ve reached passed that stage of frustration, of defeat, anger and realize that my message was sent. The message for the Kerry Campaign was also sent out to politicians, citizens and the world.

I couldn’t vote for either President George Bush or Senator John Kerry. I do feel good for the vote I made for Mr. Ralph Nader! I have little to no faith in what either of the two leading party candidates stood for. I still don’t. I feel some of the grief of those who lost their fight and I’m not happy with the man or group selected to stay in office. However, there is nothing so far, even Kerry’s lost fight for president that changed my mind that my vote was not only the right choice but the best choice I could make.

I strongly disagree with some that say there were no alternatives. Americans are creating the lack of alternatives themselves because we still don’t want to be bothered. That’s one reason the electoral college still exists because we are not willing to take control of our own country, destiny and want others to do the work and make the choices for us, so we have some one to blame too.

We accept things at face value instead of really trying to know what is going on. I’m not placing myself above the average person; I’m lazy or can’t find the time myself only to often. If we want change the avenues are there to make the change, it’s just do we have the fortitude to change and hopefully improve what has been created over decades and centuries.

I hate to say it cheating, lying, violence, wars, stuffing ballot boxes have all been part of the system from the formation of our country and they have not improved as much as they should have in my opinion. We have just become more sophisticated at utilizing and hiding or rationalizing them because many of us know there is a lot still wrong and one of the many things we are trying to improve on.

Senator John Kerry, Mr. Ralph Nader and the other 50 or so presidential candidates out there lost the election but they did get their word out of issues and items they think need to change or get done.

Justifications and rationalizations will not change anything that is. What will make the changes for the future of the country are education, learning, actions and people accepting the truth.

I agree it is time for a major overhaul of our government or we are heading for disaster, why because of many reasons and many know that we have spun out of control and I could go on with thousands of reasons. The biggest question is are we going to come together as a people of this country and change the things that need changing, improve the things that need improving and overall realize that there is no way to get through all this with out major compromises by all. Hopefully, the compromises are not of selfish nature and truly the best ideas and actions make it to the top.

What I have noticed through all of this is that many are getting angry and shouting but not listening. All of this has become important to us and emotions have been flying. Feelings are strong and this seems to lead to more anger, prejudice and adding to a lack of moving forward. There are a lot of very emotional and important issues on the plate of all the growing generations right now and how we handle all this is so very important. We will never all agree. Heck, hardly ever have I seen even a small board meeting or any other group truly agree 100 percent and how could I expect millions to do the same. We all have different experiences, backgrounds and education. I guess the question remains how do we improve the compromise and improvements to this country and try and help as many as we can, so we can move on in a positive direction.

I lost faith in the US current system at about 12 years old. I love my country and want to help make it stronger, healthier and work for the USA and the world. I’ve seen individuals and groups do many great things in this country I’ve seen a lot of awful things too. I just hope we can some how improve what is wrong. I don’t think a powerful government will be able to do this at all. It is the individuals and small groups that will make the best progress toward improvement and creating good things.

These are those people that continue to find that hope, strength and willingness to continue for what they know is the right thing. They continue no matter what the odds are. They continue because they care. It is not just the ones that get fame over their achievements but each one of these people that impress me over and over day after day. They do what they feel is right and continue down that path making each individual they encounters life a little better.

This is just a few of the reasons I selected voted Nader/Camejo. I felt they were speaking for the changes closer then the other candidates I saw running. No, they didn’t win the election but once again more of my hopes and dreams were heard by others. If every one would vote according to who stood by their ideals and hopes more then what the media, propaganda, corporate interests and government ideals blurts at us and who they think has a better chance; then I think there would probably be no party system at all and maybe we could have some greater changes in our system of government for the people and by the people.

I think it’s time for all or many of the independent and third party candidates to group together and show this compromise. To bring together a very strong Grass-Roots movement for 2008 and take back this government for the people and be by the people. It is time for the people to show the world that we have grown, become more educated, stronger and want an even greater change and improvement in the USA for us and the world. I think it is more then possible in 2008 to achieve this. The right candidate and movement needs to be start now and be there. We have produced some great achievements in this country in leaps and bounds at times and I think another leap is needed soon, and on its way to happening again. One that will astound the USA and the world in a positive way!

Oh well, I rambled here and thank you for the space to do so. I probably need to edit and reread this more but time is not always as much as I would like available. As the old cliché goes, there is never enough time in the day to do all the things you want to do.


At 6:51 AM, Blogger Charlie said...

Moral values are not the preserve of born again christians its how you are brought up to teach respect and responsibility an anything goes society produces chaos.A man has been jailed for 15 years for fathering six children from his daughter, all of them are suffering from disability through in breeding. you have to have some rules to live by.

At 8:04 AM, Blogger stella_maris said...

" ... you have to have some rules to live by."

Sure, but who are you (and who is Bush, for that matter)to tell others what to do? Preaching about respect is one thing, respecting other people's right to choose is something completely different.

At 8:50 AM, Blogger Tom Trapani said...

Something obviously went seriously wrong here. One group of voters out-motivated another group of voters and now they are calling that a concensus and a mandate. Clearly, it is not a mandate when large segments of the population refuse to vote. (It was billed to young people as "Vote or Die" and I find it hard to believe that the vast majority of young people chose the latter alternative). It is also not a mandate when the voting is completely regionalized. However, since voting is the best thing that we have to measure mandates, we need to find out why this happened and solve the problem. Otherwise, the world is in serious trouble. What can we do to make sure that all of the people vote in the off-year elections in two years to achieve a more representative balance in our government?

At 10:28 AM, Blogger Charlie said...

So if you so choose you can steal a car fiddle accounts have free sex, and dam the consequences. Its not about telling people what to do and choice is a double edged sword, I tend not to respect a person who breaks into my car or house, he may have a human right to do it as in Europe but its not right. So democracy has failed you but it has not failed me I got the result I wanted and against all the odds the biased media the hollywood weirdos, who would not recognise the word morality unless it was in a script.

At 1:34 PM, Blogger Steers and Queers said...

You guys sure make some strong statements... Especially for men who let other men JIZZ on their faces.

Get a life you retards. Talk about something REALLY important, like how hot the jizz feels when it splashes on your face.


At 1:57 PM, Blogger Michael said...

It's very simple. Your right to swing your fist ends at the bridge of my nose. You have every right to have your values. You think gay marriage is wrong? Fine. Don't marry one. You think abortion is wrong? Fine. Don't have one. But don't foist your idiocy on me.

At 3:20 PM, Blogger Pete said...

Democracy is live and well in the US. We don't rely on the media to make our democracy strong, we rely on the people. The people spoke! The "people" are smarter than you give them credit for, and the liberal elite is obviously not as smart as they think they are.

At 3:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So your hope was gone when Kerry walked out? Your hope for what? The governement to provide more services for you? For the government to take money away from successful people and give it to non successful people? Someday you socialists will relize that if we stopped doing that more people would be productive and maybe get off their butts and get a job so I don't have to worry about working extra hard to support them some day. Until then move to Sweden and wait 8 months to get any kinda off medical work done.

At 3:52 PM, Blogger Woody said...

I agree with the last guy 100%

At 5:32 PM, Blogger RyanC222 said...

Just to point something out here, it does not take 8 months to get health care in Sweden. Sweden has the top notch socialized health care system in the world. If I had the option to move to Sweden, I would be there in an instant.

What people somehow did not realize during this election was that George Bush had virtually no platform to run on. He had 2 themes to his campaign. One was that he is a war time president. The second being that Kerry is supposedly a flip-flopper. It was rather amazing to talk to so many people that actually fell for that crap.

Let's break this down. Bush is only a war time president because he brought our country to war. There was no reason to go invade Iraq. Before you want to argue with that statement, let me say that I do agree Sadam Hussein was a bad person. Maybe even evil. But is that any reason to attack another country? If that was the case, Hitler would have been stopped long before he did what he did. The "proof" that Bush had Powell bring to the world was absolutely fake and baseless. Bush had it in his mind to invade Iraq long before 9-11 ever happened.

The second theme dealt with Kerry and his Senate votes. There were many lies created by the republicans to make Kerry look bad. Kerry answered the question on why he voted for the war powers and against the money. If anybody wants to dispute that, go back and watch the debates again.

Now, I cannot say that John Kerry would have been the best person to run this year. Unfortunately, Bill Clinton is no longer able to run for president. Clinton is by far the best president we have seen in the time since World War 2. But what I have not been able to figure out is how a moron beat John Kerry. The only reason Bush has any college credentials is because his daddy bought them for him. The only reason Bush has any military credentials is because his daddy bought them for him. The only reason he has any business credentials is because... can you guess it?... his daddy bought them for him.

Are we really going to allow this man to continue to head our government? This man with nothing better than a 2nd grade education? This man who has had everything handed to him throughout his life?

Here is my solution. Impeach the SOB. And his puppet master Cheney, too.

At 6:10 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The majority ruling is not the way to protect the individual and that was one of the main concepts behind America as I was raised and told. Unfortunately, that is not the way we seem to be running are government at all!

It was mentioned here to go some where else for medical, well unfortunately if we look at the facts that is what many are doing that can afford it. People think we have done so much for the world it is pretty arrogant of us and unfortunately uninformed many times. We have in the USA what is considered one of the worst medical systems in any developed countries today for the average American. We give the least amount of monies and funding to help underdeveloped countries compared to the other developed nations. We have some of the longest working hours and least vacation time of other developed nations. These are only a few of the facts out there, if we want to ignore them or face them is up to us. If we want these as are legacies it is up to us. Many Americans can’t afford the basics with their salaries and are being enslaved before they even receive their pay checks or get out of school. We have some serious failed concepts being re-enforced by corporate America.

Privacy and policy on privacy is a large issue involved in human dignity and freedom yet it is another thing that we lag well behind other developed nations in setting.

What a shame it is. Anyone that would even think the thought of disgracing our forefathers and the people of this country with mentioning placing an amendment in the constitution about not allowing gay marriages is absolutely absurd! Look at what the constitution is supposed to be for and tell me it is not a disgrace. Why don’t we add no smoking in this country too, no dinking alcohol, no dogs pooping on the sidewalk and why your at it add seatbelts are mandatory. Come on folks we are making a mockery of our own system. :(

At 7:30 PM, Blogger Believer said...

What a relief to find similar-minded individuals out there! My blog:
I don't fit any type of profile: I'm poor AND educated. I'm a bible-thumping Christian living in the heart of the Bible Belt in a small town in Missouri, but I voted for Senator Kerry. I searched within myself, looked to my faith, and concluded Bush is NOT Christian. He resembles nothing of Christ. Not only am I a little steamed over the extreme anger directed at all Christians because of the mess on Nov. 2nd, I'm in disbelief that so many of my fellow Christians would be so blind. We're not all the same, people. Some of us can keep our morals intact while making informed, intelligent decisions. That's the great thing about both Christianity and living in the United States--we can do that.

At 7:46 PM, Blogger lizard said...

hello i need help with posting pics on my journal i downloaded both hello and picasa and it still doesnt work for me.. so it would be great if you left a comment on my journal helping me...thanks


At 12:28 AM, Blogger stella_maris said...

To Believer:
That's the best news I've heard in ... ages ... Thanks and rock on!

At 2:06 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


At 4:52 AM, Blogger Charlie said...

Clinton the best President wow. I thought he precipitated 9/11 he spent to much time prodding interns with cigars and not keeping his eyes on world events namely terrorism. 9/11 was planned during the Clinton years.

At 8:18 AM, Blogger stella_maris said...

For me, the equation is quite simple:

9/11 talked about: Clinton administration
9/11 carried out: Bush no. 2 administration

All talk and no action doesn't really count as far as I'm concerned.

At 8:46 AM, Blogger Charlie said...

Re For me, the equation is quite simple:

Thats extreme lateral thinking.

At 8:58 AM, Blogger stella_maris said...

Vertical thinking may be straightforward and quick, but in our world, nothing is simply black or white and that's why it's better and way more constructive to think laterally. Where would we be today if Aristotle, da Vinci, Newton or Edison used vertical thinking instead of lateral? The average neo-conservative mindset is (unfortunately) very vertical.

At 9:03 AM, Blogger InspectorCliche said...

I wish we could talk about our commonalities and have a non-biased dialogue (where we listen to one another and consider each point of view before blurting out the hard line of one party or another).

We (the people) need to come together accepting different points of view with respect rather than waging war or feeling defeated if/when we don't get our way in the national election.

At the end of the day, democracy protects us all from our greatest foe (ourselves). The wisdom of the ages made it into the pages of our declaration of independence - we can all be thankful for that!

Over time, our democracy may sway from one extreme (Conservatism) to anther (liberalism), - but, from a distance one can appreciate the fact that a power greater than ourselves has and is navigating this great nation through the perils of time.

Our job is to follow the "better angels of our nature" and participate in the process - by getting involved, and by all means placing our vote.

Once we have participated in the process to the best of our individual abilities, we can accept the results with faith that this great country may be swaying away from the direction we think is right, but ultimately it will correct itsself (if, in fact, we are correct in our thinking).

We (the people) have more in common than we have different - on any given issue, 2 individuals from the same party will tend to disagree on the details, but overall we share the same quest.

Our common quest is to enjoy our individual pursuits of happiness and ensure (as best we can) that future generations enjoy that same freedom.

We all enjoy living in the best form of government known to mankind (in spite of it's inherent flaws). None of us are (or ever will be) perfect - therefore, I believe we cannot expect perfection out of our political process. However, we can appreciate the fact that, from a distance, our form of government has navigated (thus far) successfully through the test of time.

Let's all unite and seek an honest dialogue with as little "politics" as possible. We "the people" are still blessed to live in the United States of America!

Election 2004 - National Pulse (notes from watching election results)

It occurred to me as I watched one of the big 3 television broadcasting networks follow the election returns last night that many news media correspondents are completely out of touch with the pulse of the average American citizen.

Case in point:
Rudy Juliani was presented with a question by one of these correspondents something like this - "it just doesn't feel like we are/or should be a nation at war - when I go about my daily business on the streets of New York City, I never meet anyone remotely involved in the war effort - don't you believe that we (our country) would be better off today if we hadn't started the war in Iraq?".

Rudy responded in his usual calm and confident manner to set this "journalist" straight with the following points:

1. We (the US) did NOT start the war in Iraq - resolution after resolution was passed by the UN demanding that Iraq allow UN inspectors to disprove the intelligence reports accumulated by multiple countries on the UN panel. Saddam's refusal to comply with these resolutions left us with no choice but to go on the offensive in the wake of 9/11. Allowing Iraq to ignore UN resolutions (16 in all) without repercussion would have left the UN in a state of abandonment (if any rogue nation can ignore UN resolutions - what is the purpose of having a UN?). Make no mistake about it, Saddam started the war in Iraq - but we will finish it.

2. Our offensive against 9/11 is working - immediately after 9/11, No one would have bet that the leadership of this country could take any action to avoid additional terrorists attacks within our borders over the following 3 years - additional attacks at that point in our history seemed eminent. However, by taking the bold action of going on the offensive against all terrorist organizations seeking to bring harm to the United States (not just the terrorist who hit the Twin Towers), the leadership of this great nation has put all of the major terrorist organizations seeking to do us harm on the run (by taking the "War" to them). Bin Laden has been reduced to a perpetual game of "cat and mouse" that will ultimately end in his demise as the leader of the Taliban. Saddam Hussein's terror regime has been toppled. Other terrorists organizations who have drawn an endless supply of terrorized, poverty stricken youths from Iraq to perform their acts of terror (usually in the form of suicide missions) have crossed the border into Iraq out of necessity. -( if Iraq is successful in sharing the wealth and potential of their nation through the vehicle of a free and democratic form of government, where will these terror organizations find resource or refuge?)

Imagine, if you can, a free and democratic form of government in the heart of the middle east that shares its wealth and opportunities with all of its citizens. Imagine Iraqi citizens who begin to break away from the miserable bonds of terror and poverty - and begin to dream.

This cannot happen over night - we occupied Germany and Japan for several years following WWII. But we did not seek to occupy them forever, but rather, to assist them in forming their own free and democratic form of government. Today, no one refers to either Germany or Japan as an extension of the US government - but rather, as free and independent nations. Why can't we share the same dream for Iraq?

The stakes are high. Pulling out too early would be disastrous - possibly giving rise to an even more terror driven form of government. In honor of the service men and women who have already made the supreme sacrifice in this effort, we must invest the necessary resources to rebuild and secure a free and democratic Iraq. Ten to fifteen years down the road, the rewards for not only the average Iraqi citizen, but also, the safety/security of all nations will be priceless.

3. Although the volunteer soldiers in Iraq are disproportionately from states other than New York, New Yorkers should never forget the ties that bind this great nation together. Volunteer soldiers from the heart-land of this country have committed themselves to fight against the terrorists who sought to destroy the security of this great nation on 9/11 (most of these soldiers have never even had the privilege/opportunity to even visit New York City). Make no mistake, throughout the heart-land of this great nation we Know not only that we are at war, but also why we are at war, with whom, and what the stakes (are for the future of this great nation and for peace-loving nations around the globe).

From the results of yesterdays election, I'd say that Rudy is closer to the true "Pulse" than any of the commentators we all watch on the nightly news.

At 9:08 AM, Blogger harleyj said...

If your hope was on Kerry you never did have any hope. The Clintons were entertaining to a point but the Kerrys? Give it time and lets see what happens now that Bush won't have to worry about another four year term.

How do I get my site listed?
I'm very new at this.

At 9:32 AM, Blogger Charlie said...

I agree with Rudi Guliani thats vertical thinking everyone can understand, he should possibly be the next presidential candidate. Lateral thinking leave that to the scientists, it beats me.

At 11:12 AM, Blogger Phil said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At 11:18 AM, Blogger Phil said...

W is for Whacked...Bushwhacked again. Its simple really- just dangle boy scout bobo Bush face for the public, have him say key words-terror, religion, patriotism,etc for the idiots while Cheney and his minions supplement with thier dirty behind-the-scenes thievery (ie:voter fraud) and Wha la!! Welcome to four more years of Dark Lord Cheney with Curious George on the label....what ever happened to truth in advertising?

At 11:32 AM, Blogger stella_maris said...

Charlie: "Lateral thinking leave that to the scientists, it beats me."

What beats me is the way you reject all things that don't conform to your ready-made oversimplified neo-conservative view of the world ...

At 11:55 AM, Blogger Barry said...

Bush won in part because those supporting gay marriage (not an issue for me but a major issue for the religious right) could not wait to push those buttons until after the election. They had to pick an election year to go all civil disobedient in MA and CA. If only they had waited until Kerry was president. There needed to be focus on the goal of removing Bush from office and that focus needed to include not mobilizing Bush's base.

Bush also won because we're at war, although even Bush cannot define the objective of said war and better yet we have no meaningful way to measure our success or failure. That's perfect for Bush, how can he fail a test when there's no way to grade him?

As for the impending economic disaster called the national debt and the fiscal gap, neither party has a legitimate plan. Democrats best hope that the other guys are at the help when the you-know-what hits the fan.

At 12:44 PM, Blogger Andrew Fritz said...

I want to do something about this. I am very upset. I'm not upset about the "moral" win that everyone talks about. I'm more upset that people are ignorant and uneducated enough to see what is happening. It is very much like Vietnam. WE NEED AND HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS!

At 1:49 PM, Blogger Charlie said...

What beats me is the way you reject all things that don't conform to your ready-made complicated Socialist view of the world ... Sometimes simplifiction is the best route to take otherwise nothing would ever get done. Its simple really high taxes mean lots of bureaucrats to redistribute wealth to people who sit on their backsides while the rest work like idiots to pay for it all.Look at Germany and France over taxed no growth they rely on the American economy to keep them going, talk about biting the hand that feeds it.

At 2:45 PM, Blogger S33K3R said...

Many of us (both Democrats and some Republicans) are fed up with the way politics and elections have been going lately.

It feels like Democracy is now for sale to the highest bidder and we don't even have a bidder's card.

The US has Always had two majority parties and a few third partis. But, the top two parties have changed over time. I think it is time to start a new party that is a party made up of the people and working directly for the people.

Instead of wasting our frustrated energies in armchair quarterbacking the election, lets start playing the game - personally.

RSS Feed:

At 4:47 PM, Blogger TrekMedic251 said...

OK,..why is it fine to vilify Rupert Murdoch, or the Sinclair Group, but nobody says "Boo" when George Soros does the same thing?

No wonder we have two countries anymore. We have such a double-standard. And the ones perpetuating it, unfortunately, are the Democrats.

At 5:16 PM, Blogger Axalotal said...

This was a staged election from the start. Kerry and Bush are cousins, both members of the same secret society which has the stated goal of taking over America for their own interest, both are members of BOHEMIAN grove where the conduct occult rituals and mock human sacrifices to a 30 foot high statute of an owl god named molec. The list goes on. I hate to say it but the 2004 election was nothing but grand theatre where almost no one knew they had a ticket.

At 6:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Um, i think i am going way way way back in the comments to the "Kerry is ok with killing people's lives" thing. just wanna get a few things strait- 1) he is ok with allowing a woman to make the choice to end something GROWING INSIDE HER WOMB and 2) George W. is ok with capital punishment. SPARE THE EMBRYOS BUT KILL THE LIVING PEOPLE! ugh puke my guts out

At 7:42 PM, Blogger photofiend said...

This whole thing is a huge disappointment! I don't understand how so many people can pretend not to notice any of the hundreds of terrible things Bush is doing. That whole family morals thing... I would like to challenge their true morals anytime...hum no gun control, killing hundreds of thousands of people for money, taking away civil rights. Oh and they care so much about 2 men getting married. How pathetic. The list goes on and I do believe for the people who believe the bible so litterally that it does say in there somewhere "Thou shall not kill"! A few things about what to do about Ruphord Murdock. There is a documentary called OUT FOXED that I'm sure you will find really interesting. They also have a website that has many groups of people taking action to get rid of the 5 corporations who control our media. You might want to take a look because there are things that we can do if everyone does there part.

At 7:45 PM, Blogger abbiapple said...

Well, I suppose all that's left to do now is huddle together, lick our wounds and weep. I need a hug.

At 7:58 PM, Blogger Hillbilly from Olive Hill, KY said...

You should thank God everyday that Hanoi John Kerry lost the election, I do. Face it , the people have spoken and they, despite the media attention and support for Kerry, have chosen President Bush over Kerry. It is important to note that social conservatives had to vote for Bush even though he is a centrist he is not the socialist that Hanoi John is.

At 7:58 PM, Blogger Mamacita said...

There are so many of us out here who feel the same way. And we're everywhere -- there are MILLIONS of us. As thoughts of secession crossed my mind, I came across some historical perspective:

At 8:09 PM, Blogger Mamacita said...

There are so many of us out here who feel the same way. And we're everywhere -- there are MILLIONS of us. As thoughts of secession crossed my mind, I came across some historical perspective:

At 9:29 PM, Blogger Action Network said...

I’m starting a website and blog for this purpose. The website will combine directed email, phone, and fax campaigns with mini-actions, similar to what was happening in NYC when people were showing up by the hundreds chewing gum at locations causing all sorts of havoc.

Although I come from a much more progressive standpoint, I’m trying to tailor the site to be moderate, so as to possible peel away at the middle. Don’t make fun of the design yet, I’ve been working too much on the database part and haven’t had any time to tweak the design.

At 1:06 AM, Blogger stella_maris said...

Dear Hillbilly,

what do you mean by "...the people have ... chosen President Bush over Kerry"? When I'm reading a lot of these pro-Bush posts, it seems to me that the republicans don't see democrats as humans! The people have chosen ... etc. If Bush supporters are 'the people', who are these nearly 50% of Americans who voted for Kerry then? Aliens? Animals? Objects?

It seems to me that the Orwellian "All animals are equal. But some are more equal than the others." is alive and well in the USA.

At 8:26 AM, Blogger Joe said...

Why don't you liberals quit whining and join in this great Republic? Religion is not going to go away just like gays are not going to go away. Both are here to stay. Why can't you look at the commanalities Americans share? You guys know nothing about marketing. You put forth candidates, consistently, that don't appeal to mainstream America. You pick the whackiest of the whacky and then wonder why you lost. Liberals should never lose, but you seem to find a way. You have virtually every type of news media distorting the truth, providing disinformation and saying whatever they can throw on the wall and see if it sticks supporting you. You believe and act incorrectly in portraying middle America as uneducated morons that just aren't as enlightened as you think you are. If you are so smart why do you keep losing? The divide in the country is nothing new. We just have more people participating and joining sides. You say the red states are Christian fundamentalist that don't think about the economy and world affairs. I reality, you are the ones that ignore economic matters and place your bets on gay marriage and abortion. That is your religion, men marrying men, women marrying women and killing little babies for convenience because of irresponsible choices you made. How the hell are you going to market that to anyone but yourselves? Marriage is between a man and a women traditionally, morally to some and legally. What is wrong with gay unions? Allowing babies to live their life and be placed for adoption if unwanted? No, you want to go against everything normal, natural and traditional and wonder why you lose.
Get in the middle, find common ground to agree and we will continue to fight each other on these other issues. Isn't it great to be in a country where you can do these things?
Will you people fight for anything other than homosexual marriage and abortion? We are able to be what we are because we have a strong military. They are the best of the best and the world knows it. You would give it up unilaterally for so called world peace. Think of what could be done if there were no armies to fight each other. Now, back to the real world. There are, have been and will be. Weakness is defeated, you should know that by now. We cannot disarm unilaterally and hope the world will follow. Too many real fundamentalist want to control all of us. 17 current conflicts going on in the world and Muslims are involved in all 17. The U.S. did not start all of them either.
Abortion, Gay marriage, weak military and belief that some way some how the U.N. has our best interest at heart. Gee, I wonder why you lost 52-47 and call it almost 50%. You don't know math, you don't know marketing, you don't seem to stand for much that really means anything and the red states are the dumb ones?
It doesn't look that way.
So, quit whining, join in, stand for something of substance, discuss our differences and make this a better place for everyone.
PS Please take a look at Kerry's congressional record. Don't look a CNN, CBS or the NY Times, especially if you want the truth. He is indecisive at best, would develop a foreign policy that depended on the UN and the wind direction and really stood for nothing of interest to middle America; therefore, bright ones, you lost again. He did speak well. Boy, that means alot especially when you don't say anything.

At 8:28 AM, Blogger Dr. Science said...

Bravo Cathexis.

At 8:32 AM, Blogger Dr. Science said...

You know, although the grammar's pretty bad, I think Joe has a point. He's parroting the Republican spin of the Democratic party. Somehow the Democrats let that happen. The BS coming from Joe (sorry Joe, the Democrats do not stand for no US military, just as one example...) shows that perhaps there are many people like him that believe this crap. In reality it is the job of Democrats to define themselves and somehow figure out how to beat the big meanie Karl Rove at his own game.

At 9:49 AM, Blogger Joe said...

Dr. Science:
You can't define yourself when you stand for very little. You wave in the wind with no foundation. You whither as common sense fails you. Your mantra has been and will continue to be rejected and you are doomed to a generation of real American values, sorry. You shouldn't continue wondering why democrats lost, because you and many more like you are the reason why. I thank you for that. I can work on my grammar and maybe even improve it, but you can't fix your condition.
Good luck anyway.

At 9:58 AM, Blogger Sid Suspicious said...

Jesus... what a lot of bile here. did all of you US citizens vote? there's a lot of this after-the-event cursing wailing and gnashing of teeth here too, but, when you ask about it, very few people actaually bothered to try and prevent the event which caused such umbrage taking place. i just want to know... does this happen on your side of the pond as well, or is this just an isolated UK phenomenon?

At 10:12 AM, Blogger Charlie said...

Well it seems a common concensus that Bush deserved to win quite right to. John Kerry lost because his very rich wife could not seem to control her hair it was a bit of a mess unkempt, even with all that money she did need a good barber, she should have used John Freida's hair serum it works wonders. Laura Bush on the other hand had perfect hair and is the perfect women in many respects, an ideal first Lady.

At 10:18 AM, Blogger Charlie said...

Joe dont worry about the grammar it was fine i agreed with everthing you said. just keep it up..

At 10:42 AM, Blogger Dr. Science said...

Joe, OK a primer on where I stand:

1. I'm for an environment that is sustainable and doesn't make people sick.

2. I'm for a government that enforces rules to ensure a fair playing field in the market.

3. I'm for a government that represents the interests of all of its citizens.

4. I'm for the use of American power to make the world a better place - and I define better as: less hunger, less poverty, less war, more human rights, more fairness.

5. I'm for the rights of all American citizens under the Constitution.

6. I'm for the triumph of reason over fear.

(if you want, I can spend more time on this...but this is what occurs to me as I sit here thinking about it)

And Joe, what exactly is my condition, and where does common sense fail me?

At 10:44 AM, Blogger Dr. Science said...

By the way, just on this whole weak military thing...ummm, Bush invaded Iraq with CLINTON'S military....

At 10:49 AM, Blogger Dr. Science said...

I voted for Kerry.

At 10:58 AM, Blogger stella_maris said...

To Joe:

I'd genuinely love to focus on what we have in common ... thing is (judging by your post) we have NOTHING in common.
You support American neo-imperialism, isolationism, unilateralism, preemptive war, religious orthodoxy, anti-gay bigotry, gender inequality, intolerance, arrogance, short-sightedness, the concept that ends justify the means and that power is more important than principle, hawkishness, abuse of the environment, fake populism ... and I just don't. It reminds me a bit too much of Nazi ideology, frankly.
Sad but true.

At 11:00 AM, Blogger Dr. Science said...

Woah...I'm not sure Joe stands for all of that Cathexis. At least I hope not...

At 11:03 AM, Blogger Dr. Science said...

Oh and Charlie...since you brought it up...what's up with the First Ladies eyeballs? Why is it she seems like she's never, really, quite looking at anything?

I think Ms. Heinz-Kerry would have made a fabulous First Lady. Too neat though for this crowd apparently.

At 11:20 AM, Blogger stella_maris said...

Dear Dr. Science ... so do I.
Oh and by the way - I guess I was just trying to sum up the neoconservative ideology ... but I have to admit that I failed miserably. Sorry about that. Hey, at least there's room for improvement! :)

At 11:25 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dr. Science said...
Well I quite like her eyeballs when shes looking at me they do look real, are you saying they are glass?
ps beware of cathexis she's brought me of my bike a couple of times, Fidel Castro and Che Giuvara rolled into one.

At 11:49 AM, Blogger Dr. Science said...

No, I'm not saying they're glass...I'm just saying they look funny mr. anonymous #whatever...

At 11:50 AM, Blogger stella_maris said...

Okay, so now that we've established who I am, WHO ARE YOU "Anonymous"?

At 12:20 PM, Blogger Charlie said...

Someone impersonating me I brought up Laura Bush being a perfect first Lady which she is and has perfect eyes. This is an utter disgrace the moral decline is worse than I thought. The remarks about cathexis, although she does scare me, are a little wide of the mark.

At 12:29 PM, Blogger Dr. Science said... now tongue-in-cheek comments about Laura Bush's eyes are an example of "moral decline?????"


"I thought Lincoln was good..."
-Jon Stewart

(see the Crossfire episode if you haven't already)

At 12:34 PM, Blogger Charlie said...

I have just recieved this email from a treacherous friend dont worry he's a plonker.

Dear Charlie
I thought you might like to read a little story about your hero.

President Bush was visiting a primary school. One of the classes was in the
middle of a discussion related to words and their meanings. The teacher
asked the president if he would like to lead the discussion on the word
So the illustrious leader asked the class for an example of a "tragedy."

One little boy stood up and offered, "If my best friend, who lives on a
farm, is playing in the field and a tractor runs him over and kills him,
that would be a tragedy."

" No," said Bush, "that would be an accident."

A little girl raised her hand: "If a school bus carrying 50 children drove
over a cliff, killing everyone inside, that would be a tragedy."

" I'm afraid not." explained the president. "That's what we would call a
great loss."

The room went silent. No other children volunteered. Bush searched the
room. "Isn't there someone here who can give me an example of tragedy?"

Finally at the back of the room a small boy raised his hand. In a quiet
voice he said: "If Air Force One carrying Mr. Bush was struck by a
"friendly fire" missile and blown to smithereens, that would be a tragedy."

"Fantastic!" exclaimed Bush. "That's right. And can you tell me why that
would be a tragedy?"

"Well," says the boy, "it has to be a tragedy, because it certainly
wouldn't be a great loss and it probably wouldn't be an accident either."

At 12:52 PM, Blogger Dr. Science said...

Charlie has kind of lost me...uhh, Charlie, where ya goin with that one buddy??

From Michael Moore's "17" (which are kinda cute in my opinion):

Number 17 (and, ya know, there is a sliver of optimism in this one):

Finally and most importantly, over 55 million Americans voted for the candidate dubbed "The #1 Liberal in the Senate." That's more than the total number of voters who voted for either Reagan, Bush I, Clinton or Gore. Again, more people voted for Kerry than Reagan. If the media are looking for a trend it should be this -- that so many Americans were, for the first time since Kennedy, willing to vote for an out-and-out liberal. The country has always been filled with evangelicals -- that is not news. What IS news is that so many people have shifted toward a Massachusetts liberal. In fact, that's BIG news. Which means, don't expect the mainstream media, the ones who brought you the Iraq War, to ever report the real truth about November 2, 2004. In fact, it's better that they don't. We'll need the element of surprise in 2008.

At 12:57 PM, Blogger Dr. Science said...

By the way, if you ever thought that Michael Moore was crazy, and the Republican Party was not, please read this:

The Republicans apparently SERIOUSLY wanted to bring ole Michael "crazy liberal" Moore up on charges for saying he'd buy ya underwear if you agreed to vote...oh or Ramen noodels...

Remember O'Reilly's suit against Al Franken? Same vein...

At 1:08 PM, Blogger Joe said...

Dr. Science:
You paint with a broad brush. All of your points of what you stand for are admirable. The devil is in the details.
1. Environment : You're dead on. We are dead without it. Republicans and Democrats have fallen short on this issue. You can't feed 6 billion people without insecticides and fertilizer but we have common ground to work here. I support President's Bush's Clear Skies Initiative , Clean Air Rules and promotion and support of better conservation and energy technologies. I trust you will support him also.
2. Government rules to create a fair and balanced playing field in the market place, right on. Big monied liberals and conservatives keep this problem alive and we have to work diligently with our congressional representatives to see it changed for the better. The mutual fund community has suddenly become aware of the uneven playing field and have started following the rules a little more diligently. This was even worse under Clinton. More common ground.
3.Government representing all of its citizens. I assume that means unborn children also. I hope that means that you can't choose one citizen over another as we do in an abortion. I am heartened that you feel that way.
4. American power to make the world a better place with less hunger, more rights, less poverty, less war. I am sure the people of Iraq and Afghanistan will appreciate you joining in with President Bush's desire to give them more freedom, less poverty, less war and more rights than they have ever had before. Isn't good that we can support him to stabilize the region and maybe even set an example for a total Middle East peace initiative. Unfortunately, we have to kill alot of little dictators, terrorist and thugs to achieve this.
5. Rights of all American citizens under the constitution. This is really important and I am glad you stand for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Do you think you can apply this to the 9 month old American citizens that get stabbed in the neck as the come out awaiting life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
6. Triumph of reason over fear. When we deal with reality, stand fast in our commitments and handle adversity, just as President Bush has done, reason will overcome your fears.
We have a lot of common ground to work with. Why don't we support these iniatives and if they don't work, put another administration in charge? That is the way and why our Republic works.

At 1:14 PM, Blogger Joe said...

A lot of labels and really big words. But you say nothing and are too silly to really respond to.

At 1:35 PM, Blogger Dr. Science said...

So, Joe, do you take your previous comment back? Apparently now you don't think that:

"Dr. Science...can't define yourself when you stand for very little. You wave in the wind with no foundation. You whither as common sense fails you. Your mantra has been and will continue to be rejected and you are doomed to a generation of real American values, sorry...I can work on my grammar and maybe even improve it, but you can't fix your condition."

It seems that none of this is true, right?

At 2:02 PM, Blogger Dr. Science said...

Now, on to your latest comment. First, I respect your right to have an opinion, but I do not respect your tactic. Let me speak for myself. Don't speak for me.

No, I do not support the policies you think I should support, based on the ideals that I stand for.

Oh, and big brush...yeah, that's true, it's a foundation from which one makes decisions about specific policies.

So, on to the examples just for kicks:

1. Clear Skies Initiative. This one could fill a blog, but the punchline is that it REDUCES restrictions on pollution. It's cleverly, but disengenuously named "initiative." This is a rather complex issue, and there are reductions in pollution in this initiative. HOWEVER, the Clean Air Act, if enforced as it WAS written would have reduced pollution even more.

Mercury pollution is my favorite of this one. Anyone been fishing in the midwest lately?? Guess what?? EVERY LAKE IS POLLUTED WITH so that means that now there is a cap on the number of fish you can eat per month (it's a small number: northern pike - 1 meal/week; king mackerel 1 per month). The so-called Clear Skies Initiative means there's gonna be MORE mercury in those fish.

Anyone have asthma? Anyone been told to stay inside during particular days because of air pollution? Ever heard of global warming?

Joe, no one really believes that Bush supports the environment, except where it's easy. Remember ANWR?

2. Oh come on Bush is a champion of consumers and workers?? Since when? Your example is some voluntary example of Mutual Fund company compliance with EXISTING law and regulations...pathetic. You know who I really like in this arena? A certain Attorney General in New York named Spitzer. THAT'S the kind of thing that John Ashcroft would have pursued if he cared about average Americans, but he doesn't.

3. No, unborn children are just that: unborn - not yet children. We're not going to agree on this one, but in my opinion, life begins when the infant does not require a womb to stay alive.

4. Hardly...."we have to kill alot of little dictators, terrorist and thugs to achieve this." What do you think the ratio is of innocents:thugs killed in these places? What if there was a better way? Look to history for this one. The invasion of Iraq is modern colonialism, and I do not believe it will be successful in the sense that Iraq will serve as some beacon of peace and hope in the middle east. We shall see...By the way, does it really not trouble you that the Bush administration changed its case for war multiple times, and the WMD case was a house of cards?? I understand what drew us into WWII. I do not understand what drew us into Iraq, and I don't buy the "spreading olive branches with the barrel of a gun" argument.

5. Again, we disagree over abortion. I think you're statement about 9 months old being stabbed in the neck is a little over the top too.

6. This one just kills me. Bush and his administration have been the orchestrators of fear. Remember the duct tape and plastic fiasco??? Did you see the "wolves" ad that Bush put out? Eternal war...that's what this is and it's fueled by fear that is not justified. Can the "War on Terror" be won? No. or Yes. It depends on when you ask Bush. How do we when? What's the end game? Think about it. What, specifically are you afraid of, and why?

At 2:02 PM, Blogger Joe said...

Dr. Science:
Yes, I take some of it back and it was unfair for me to label you the way I did without even knowing you.

At 2:02 PM, Blogger Joe said...

Dr. Science:
Yes, I take some of it back and it was unfair for me to label you the way I did without even knowing you.

At 2:05 PM, Blogger Dr. Science said...

Oh, and I take back my comment about your grammar Joe. In a long blog, without editing, I guess we all make mistakes...

At 2:21 PM, Blogger stella_maris said...

Allright, now that we're all happy bunnies in here, can someone explain to me why you think I'm scary? Is it because you think that being a liberal equals being a commie? You're wrong on that one, fellas. I was brought up in a communist country a let me tell you, I KNOW what it's like (you don't, by the way) ... and it sucks. The current ideology of the Republican party, however, is equally extreme ... only to the right instead of left. So there.

At 2:23 PM, Blogger Mike said...

I agree with those who feel that we are surrounded by a country lost in its attempt to understand democracy. majority of this nation voted for bush. majority of this nation is idiotic. do you ACTUALLY believe bush has done good things for this country? if so, please let me know what i've missed in the last 4 years.... its possible I may not have noticed i was blind and dumb as a doorknob.

At 2:36 PM, Blogger Joe said...

Dr. Science:
You will be a Bush-hater no matter what facts slap you in the face. You will be against everything conservatives try to do and you will discredit any and everything someone that doesn't think like you will try. You are what you say we are. Go ahead an play with that grammar. You have some good ideas but your unwillingness to even consider another way other than your dogma will only make us fight you harder. You don't even want us to reach out to you. Our numbers are larger than yours, we are better funded and will do grass roots campaign a lot harder than you will. Go ahead and get mired in all this jibber-jabber. You will see that conservatism will rule your life for the next generation and beyond, whether you like it or not.
We understand what you are, you don't have a clue about us.
Science defines life at conception, by the way. You are the greatest of hypocrits to talk about citizen's rights being guaranteed by the government and want to kill babies for convenience. You define life the way it suits your argument. I fear that is the way you do everything. One hypocrisy will lead to another and you will be right back to where I said you were in the first place, not really standing for anything. I went over the top about a nine month old being stabbed? What facts do you want to hear to enable your philosophy to not be guilty? There really aren't any that exist.
We will just continue dominating you politically and legally since you cannot tolerate common decency and sense.

At 2:36 PM, Blogger Joe said...

Dr. Science:
You will be a Bush-hater no matter what facts slap you in the face. You will be against everything conservatives try to do and you will discredit any and everything someone that doesn't think like you will try. You are what you say we are. Go ahead an play with that grammar. You have some good ideas but your unwillingness to even consider another way other than your dogma will only make us fight you harder. You don't even want us to reach out to you. Our numbers are larger than yours, we are better funded and will do grass roots campaign a lot harder than you will. Go ahead and get mired in all this jibber-jabber. You will see that conservatism will rule your life for the next generation and beyond, whether you like it or not.
We understand what you are, you don't have a clue about us.
Science defines life at conception, by the way. You are the greatest of hypocrits to talk about citizen's rights being guaranteed by the government and want to kill babies for convenience. You define life the way it suits your argument. I fear that is the way you do everything. One hypocrisy will lead to another and you will be right back to where I said you were in the first place, not really standing for anything. I went over the top about a nine month old being stabbed? What facts do you want to hear to enable your philosophy to not be guilty? There really aren't any that exist.
We will just continue dominating you politically and legally since you cannot tolerate common decency and sense.

At 2:43 PM, Blogger stella_maris said...

Okay, now Joe is the one who's scary ...

At 2:45 PM, Blogger Charlie said...

Cathexis said...
How come you were brought up in a comunist country and which one.
If you label yourself a Liberal take a look at the number one Liberal country Holland and see what is happening there. They are now starting to reconsider their Liberal views.
Clever women always scare men so don't worry about it.

At 3:01 PM, Blogger stella_maris said...

Former Czechoslovakia, Charlie.

I know what happened in Holland but I don't think that people are actually reconsidering their liberal views ... they're simply afraid.

Just like Americans are afraid nowadays because of what happened on 9/11. And, as any psychologist will tell you, when you put a lot of scared people together, the fear only grows, often turns into widespread panic, and the mass then abandons rational thinking and acts on primitive impulses (preemptive aggression, radical action et cetera) instead.

I know that the world is a dangerous place, but we must not give in to fear. We must not let it take over our lives.

At 3:14 PM, Blogger Charlie said...

Oh cathexis -you do have a way with words.

I think you will find that right wing parties are gaining strength in Holland with opinion polls stating 60% feel multi culturism has failed them.

At 3:16 PM, Blogger stella_maris said...

Here's a link to someone who has a way with words, too (mostly swearwords, though) ... check it out, guys.

At 3:35 PM, Blogger Dr. Science said...

Dear Joe,

I was engaged in what I believed was a relatively civil discussion of political differences. After your last comment, I don't believe you are engaged in that any more.

Perhaps now I know what you are really afraid of: a secular society that respects the views of all, including those of us who disagree with you.

Joe, you have absolutely no idea what I am "willing to consider" or not. Your second attempt here to divine what I am thinking has not succeeded (feel free to try again though!).

This statement, I think, reveals a lot about where you are coming from: "You will see that conservatism will rule your life for the next generation and beyond, whether you like it or not."

In fact, you might be right. I just happen to believe that this is wrong, flat wrong. Oh, and I'm not going anywhere. I'm staying right here in the country I was born in and love, and will be fighting for the things I believe in as long as I am alive.

Conservatism has no right to "rule" anyone's life. This nation was founded on "liberal" ideas, and one of those ideas was that religious dogma should not be allowed to determine the direction of government.

Oh, and again, you have no idea who I am or where I'm coming from. You don't know my family, my religion, my neighborhood, my friends. You don't have any idea what kind of clue I have about you.

I will admit that I don't know you. It's rather shocking to me to see that you think you know so much about me.

Oh, and just one parting quote from you:

"We will just continue dominating you politically and legally since you cannot tolerate common decency and sense."

What the hell does that even mean?? I thought you took back the claim that I have no common not only don't I HAVE common sense, but I can't even TOLERATE it?

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At 10:17 AM, Blogger Dr. Science said...

Not that anyone's paying attention to this one any more, but I thought I would clarify something I wrote. I wrote essentially that life begins when the womb is no longer necessary. It may be said that life begins at conception. That argument has some validity since the blastocyst has some independence, grows, changes. It's a fascinating, humbling process. When does that entity acquire rights as an American citizen? That is the crux of the argument, and I think it is not an arbitrary decision to say that it acquires rights when it exists as an independent entity - that is it no longer requires the womb to stay alive.

How else would you define it and why? If the entity has rights from conception just like you and I do, we have some very serious legal and moral issues to deal with. If it's independence, respiration, etc. define it as alive, then sperm are alive. Do they deserve rights? I don't think so...that one's an easy one.

What about frozen embryos? What about test tube babies? Are these things morally wrong? It seems to me that the religious right would have us believe that "every sperm is sacred." Is it? Is Onanism a sin? Many of us voting Americans think not and think that legislating this version of morality is against the foundations of our Constitution.

Biotechnology presents some very complex and difficult moral issues. Unfortunately, in today's climate a genuine discussion of this morality is awash in the "anti-choice" vs. "pro-abortion" hogwash...

At 11:10 AM, Blogger Joe said...

Dr. Science:
I have been to a dozen homes in my town talking to people about what is important to them. Since our last blogblast toward each other it occurs to me that you have been at the computer too much, blogging too much and a little caught up in telling all of us how you feel. Very eloquently, by the way. Your time will be better spent on the street in grass root campaigns like we are doing. There are tens of thousands of us out talking about the Trojan horse that is the democratic party; espousing their new found religiousness, family values and the need to reach out to suburban and rural America ( in a less left leaning way). You liberals are still moaning about losing, trying to impeach Bush because he won and we are planning 2006 and 2008 victories. You guys keep blogging, I have to go because we are working, not whining and will keep on winning. Very poor sentence structure and a weak attempt at a badly structured alliteration. I know.

It has been fun but I have to go to work now. I strongly suggest you do the same or it will be two generations of misery for liberals instead of just one.

At 6:47 PM, Blogger JoeyPier said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At 8:14 AM, Blogger Dr. Science said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At 8:21 AM, Blogger Dr. Science said...

Oh, and hey, yeah Joe I was telling my wife this just the other day. It HAS been fun blasting back and forth, and you know, you are right the democrats seemed to be ready for the 2000 election this year, but Karl Rove and the likes were ready for this year, and yup you all are already planning for 2006 and 8. Well, so are we. We'll see how it shapes up next time. Good luck. I think you'll need it.

At 8:25 AM, Blogger Dr. Science said...

I will say this: You better work at that grass roots stuff you're working on because you will need all the help you can get next time around. Conservatives aren't the only ones with friends in the neighborhood and liberals have a pretty fair record on grass-roots organizing. Remember the Civil Rights movement? See ya in '06.

At 5:07 PM, Blogger CleverCynic said...

The civil rights movement was valid and important and passed at the behest of a Republican dominated house. Try not to forget who the emancipators are. Just because we refuse to favor minorities over ourselves does not mean we wish to oppress them. Equality is supposed to be true in nature, not by government forcing a mistruth to appear true.

At 12:23 PM, Blogger Dr. Science said...

Unreal Mr. actually seem to be implying that the Republicans championed the Civil Rights movement...unreal....

Ummm, you remember the Dixiecrats? uhhh, you remember that uhhh the Democrats basically lost "The South" with their support of the Civil Rights Act?? (I assume that's what you mean when you say the Republicans "passed the movement")

And, wowsers...."try to remember who the emancipators are"??!?!?!?!?!!

Uhhh, what exactly does that mean?

At 2:46 PM, Blogger CleverCynic said...

I'm not implying anything, I'm pointing out that it was bi-partisan as things used to be back in the day.

Emancipators, look up Lincoln, Abraham. Check party affilitation.

And I also think you know that the dixiecrats and yellow dog democrats have all become or consistently vote republican despite their registered party.

And check out the cabinet and appointments.

I have no idea why blacks vote for you guys at ALL, except that the doubletalk comes off as rational to all of you.

Your response to outsourcing is raising taxes and forcing corporations to pay for healthcare. I don't know how you guys live to term. There is nothing in the wishes of your party's platform that I disagree with really in premise at all, you're just not practical as to effect in the real world.

At 3:48 PM, Blogger Dr. Science said...

Uhh, yes, exactly. You're making my point Cynic. TO quote Jon Stewart "I thought Lincoln was good."

I'm talking specifically about modern Democrats and modern Republicans. The reason Democrats lost the Dixiecrats was because they (the Dixiecrats) were basically racist and against the Civil Rights Act. Soooo, where did these folks go?? The Republican Party, where they didn't find hostility to their beliefs.

Also, I'm not saying that all Republicans are evil, I'm just saying that the modern Democratic Party more strongly supports the ideals of the civil rights movement, and THAT'S why the left has historically enjoyed broad support from minorities.

In today's climate I also can't help but add that treating all humans as equal before the law is a moral decision - and it is one that is most strongly supported by Democrats.

At 4:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey you mother fucking bitch,

America is not a mother fuckin democracy. America is a god damned constitutional republic. End of story.

At 5:20 PM, Blogger CleverCynic said...

Ah, Jon Stewart, that's his name. I still think of him as the dark-haired guy filling in for Craig Killborn while on a LOOONG hiatus. The kids loved him in Elmopalooza. Actually I watch that show but he got pretty alienating over that last month or so.

I truly believe that the playing field has been levelled and they just gotta show up now. I think the makeup of football and basketball teams in the 50's was a direct product of discrimination, and today represents a level playing field, but that is what is being pursued, not PHD's and professorships and the like. I believe that the current generation of blacks has inherited the Jim Crow era and that that is alive in their psyche's perhaps, but stems more from that than anything we are actively doing. The door is wide open as is demonstrated by everyone who has chosen to walk through it so far.

In this respect I think of Republicans and Democrats as Broccoli and Cotton candy. You know what you want, but you also know which is probably healthier. This is why the 18-25 group votes more heavily democratic but other age groups do not.

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